Pe'Shon
by earlbadu on Feb 8, 2012 12:37 AM EST
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Just finished watching the game. No question, Pe had rough moments down the stretch. And, the team in general could not handle the 1-3-1 zone, and that is on your point guard and your head coach, so Pe' and Turg have to take some blame there.
But did you see the first half? Sweet dime to Pankey, who is stuffed at the rim. Smart pass to Weijs when Wiejs was playing the four off a double on the pick and roll, bricks the 15 footer. Later, another beautiful pass to Weijs who fumbled it out-of-bounds.
Ben alluded to it in the summary. If Pe' was on a better team with better teammates that finished those plays, we would all applaud the plays. He does take the unneccesary risk for time to time, but you got to give him props for the plays he does create.
I will agree that he is not quite quick enough to be a top-flight starting ACC point guard.
But, let's remember the history. We only offered him a scholarship because Terence Ross de-committed. He was a backup plan. Let's not act like he was some 5-star who is dissappointing. He is who he is, he is the only guy capable of playing the point for us this year, and he is trying his ass off.
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My Post from the Post Game
Again, I am seeing a lot of criticism of Pe and his abilities at point guard. I agree with a lot of people’s comments regarding Pe’s offensive play, but I find it absolutely absurd that some posters are saying that he needs to adjust his style of play just because teammates are unable to finish.
Tonight Pe had about 4 dimes that would have been sportscenter highlights (see Pe’s performance at the Goodman classic) had his teammates converted and also raised his ast/to ratio quite a bit. Any player that is dropping dimes that either result in a turnover or a miss are going to loss confidence. Either in their teammates or their own ability. To suggest that a point guard, a floor general should adjust the way he plays to suit the personnel on the court is crazy. His teammates should adjust to the way their point guard plays period.
For example, when I was playing in high school my point guard also liked to thread the needle with quick passes. At first I couldn’t handle them and a lot of assists were turning into turnovers or missed opportunities. Did my coach go to my point guard and tell him to "change" the way he played to suit me? HELL NO! My coach said excellent pass then looked at me and said why the hell didn’t you hang on!!! After that the coach worked with me on improving my hands and I also expected those passes so I got better. The moral of the story is that the Bigs on this team HAVE to improve their handles and hands PERIOD. It is not a PeShon Howard issue, it is a Ashton Pankey, Berend Weijs, James Padgett, and Alex Len issue. As far as doing his job passing. When you give your teammates excellent looks and they miss you lose confidence in them. When you lose confidence in teammates you think you have to rely on your own shot. He tried to get in the paint himself, but got rejected, which further messed with his confidence.
Offensively Pe could do a much better job steadying the half court sets. I agree that he is not the type of floor general that we need and has not matured into that role yet. He is losing confidence in his own game because his main role is to facilitate and get others involved. When he tries to nothing happens. When he tries to create for himself, nothing happens.
Bottomline is teammates need to convert and that will give Pe more confidence in his own ability to find his own offense. Pe seems to feed off of his teammates, and as a young team we tend to have peaks and valleys.
This is not excuse any of his poor play. He hasn’t played particularly well (especially in the 2nd half of the Clemson game), but he hasn’t played as poorly as some have made it seem. He needs help from his teammates.
*All Terp Everything*
by asianterp on Feb 8, 2012 4:49 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
This.
He is making the passes, his teammates are the ones that are causing the turnovers when they can’t handle it. It poorly reflects in Pe’shons stats as turnovers, when really they weren’t his fault.
I’ll agree he needs to do a lot better job in getting into the halfcourt sets, but his passing certainly isn’t the issue. He is an awesome passer.
I generally agree
but this is just an absurd statement:
To suggest that a point guard, a floor general should adjust the way he plays to suit the personnel on the court is crazy
My biggest caveats on Pe'Shon
are (1) he’s got to get better at making pressure free throws. He missed the front end of a 1 and 1 in the second half against UNC and 2 last night. To me, that’s a turnover because it’s not just the one point a team loses it’s the chance for the second point as well. There’s a big difference in the tension coming down the stretch of the game if he’s 4-4 versus 0-2 and as the PG he’s likely to be in those situations frequently and; (2) he’s got to make better end of game decisions. The missed 3 a couple of games ago and the foul last night. Two thirds of the way through his sophomore year, he’s got to know better.
My Thoughts
(1) Pe’shon is a winner. Outside of the Clemson game, he has made clutch free throws down the stretch. In late-game situations, I feel best with the ball in the hands of either Pe’shon or Sean
(2) I agree the foul last night was a bad decision. But don’t knock him for trying to assert himself (which is what he is (T)urged to do anyway)
by OldLineLeader on Feb 9, 2012 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
Everybody likes Pe'Shon and wants him to succeed
In terms of personality, I think he’s probably my favorite player on this team. Easy to like.
But for guys like asian and nihon … say what you want about what Berend and everyone else should’ve done (that they can’t do), he was horrible yesterday. It’s not just the passes other people drop. Make those non-factors – should’ve been caught, but he could’ve made them easier himself – and he was still 1-5 from the field with three turnovers, missed two front ends of one-and-ones, and very nearly gave the game away with the foul of Andre Young.
Just ignore the passes instead of freaking out over them – honestly, they weren’t that important in the big scheme of things – and you’ll still see a not-nearly-good-enough game. I love the dude, but there needs to be a solution here.
Some other things of note
I love Pe’Shon too. We tweet back and forth on occasion. A couple of other issues I notice with his style of play is:
1-He tends to bring the ball up the court very slowly almost taking off 10 seconds on the play clock each time. He needs to bring it up quicker so he can start the offensive sets sooner. Scares me when I see that clock at 27 when he gets over the line.
2-He also tends to pick up his dribble pretty far from the basket when no one is nearby. Then there’s panic and bad things tend to happen.
SO along with the pinpoint passing that looks good leaving his hands but bad when the guy on the other end can’t get to it or hold onto it, the missed 1 and 1s and his lack of offense, he definitely has some work to do.
GO TERPS!!
by cerratos on Feb 8, 2012 8:02 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Point #2
I’m glad someoone pointed this out.I think over anything, picking up his dribble far from the basket is his number one problem. I can’t even fathom how many turnovers that this causes, if not by him, then by whoever receives the ball next that is also under pressure.
Last night was terrible
And honestly, Pe’shons shooting is horrendous this year. But some of those passes, if Weijs or Pankey dunk them in, change the pace in the game, since they all came in the first half. We couldn’t get our offense going in the first half, and some of the time it just seemed because MD couldn’t get a rhythm going on offense, which those passes certainly would of helped with. They caused Pe’ to start dribbling into the lane more because he lost confidence in his bigs ability to catch the pass.
But yes, overall he played horrendous last night. Missing the front end of the 1 and 1s is inexcusible. I knew our hot start at the FT line last night wouldn’t last, and we fell apart in the final minutes at the line. The worst though, as you note, is his foul on Andre Young with less than a minute to go.
The solution won’t be next year either, I don’t think Seth Allen is the solution unless he goes hardcore this spring and summer learning how to play the point and can catch on quickly. We’re going to have to wait for 2013 and hope that Turge lands the Harrisons, Jordan, or one of the other pure point guards of the class.
How about a suggestion for a solution?
Who should be playing the point? Pe is obviously our only choice at this time, he played almost all of the second half and those free throws were terribly short and he looked totally gassed. Stoglin made some totally boneheaded plays against UNC down the stretch, I wonder if MT was trying to avoid that here.
That's the problem, he appears to be the best choice
Even though he’s not a true point. In the short term, I’d like to see him sitting more, not necessarily because he isn’t good enough but because a fresh Pe’Shon is a better Pe’Shon. Long term, we need to bring in a true point, preferably in 2012, who can spell Pe’ and provide a true alternative.
by Ben Broman on Feb 8, 2012 8:57 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Outside of the passing, I think we all agree
Totally agree that his court management skills and shooting could use work. He was particularly bad with beating the press/picking up his dribble, doesn’t control tempo very well, and really should be one of our most clutch free throw shooters considering the ball is going to be in his hands a lot in the last 5 minutes of games. All granted.
I think valleyterp has a good point below though in that having seen 3 different offenses in the last 3 years has got to take some adjustment. That, and a first-year coach probably affects the PG more than anyone else in the offense, so it’s not too surprising that it’s taking him time to find his place only 10 games into his season.
I’m of the opinion that passing should be enough (works for Kendall Marshall) and I think it was for Gary, but Turge and some of the posters here seem to think he needs to shoot more to take off some pressure. That’s not really his game, so that’ll take even more adjustment. I’m sure that with the right players he would look better than he does now and have hope that he’ll be able to hold the team together for at least another year. He is pretty much our only PG until probably the 2013-14 season, after all.
Love Pe also but
He is a backup at best in this league. You have to know your team and adjust to the players, not the other way around. Not that anything is going to change this late in the recruiting year, so Pe has to get better.
Work in Progress
Pe will improve his ACC play with more experience. I think we are being too critical of a sophomore playing a difficult position. We would be in much worse shape if Howard had been redshirted this year but luckily his foot healed faster than expected. We need to accept Howard’s play and wait for improvement, I remember how bad we looked while Pe was out. We do not have any improvement coming in next year and even if we had a pure point next year it is a two year learning process before we see good play out of a PG. We need to be patient.
in defense of Howard:
1) third coach in as many years. This is tough on on PG. See what a change in coach did to Danny O’Brien in football. The PG is like the Quarterback. Makes him think to much, instead of reacting. Will get better as he learns Turgeons system better.
2) the injury is probably not 100 percent healed ( he looked much quicker pre injury) and his conditioning had to have suffered being side lined for 2 months. It does not take long to get out of playing shape, takes longer to get it back.
3) to paraphrase the great football commentator of our time, Gisselle, " He can’t pass and catch the fucking ball!"
seriously, good kid, who is trying hard, and bleeds MD red.
by valleyterp on Feb 8, 2012 8:29 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
Rec'd
Solely for usage of the Giselle quote.
The injury and time lost....
…is anyone seriously begging for the return of Adrian Bowie? I recall last year the board was almost unanimous in wanting Pe to start over AB. Pe is a sophomore, and the injury – despite his beating every timeline for his return – has to be considered when evaluating Pe. I think we have a keeper, and a front-tier PG for ACC play next season, even if this season he has had some issues. He is not a tweener playing PG; he is PG at heart who has had a few rough games.
r-hgr
Not really Bowie
but I think if Turge could go back he would have done something to keep Gibbs around.
and lets go to Bentleys...
by johnnyrobs13 on Feb 8, 2012 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
Mistakes
I love the passes from Howard when he threads the needle. Sometimes they work, sometimes not. My issue with his play last night is picking up his dribble just past half court. A PG cannot do that. We’re talking PG 101 here. The zone clearly bothered him. My other issue is not attacking the zone. He was very stationary and let himself get double teamed. Again, basic PG no-nos. In his defense, he looked exhausted at the end of the game. All the guards were tired because Turge went with 4 guards for much of the 2nd half. I don’t get it. That’s all on Turgeon.
by TerpFan2001 on Feb 8, 2012 8:50 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Attacking the zone AND the press
The second point might be a coaching decision, but I really wished they would’ve gotten more aggressive in pushing the ball up when Clemson started to pressure. Everyone knows that double teams mean that someone’s open, so Pe really should’ve passed the ball as soon as he saw 2 guys coming at him to rotate to the open man. And yeah, picking up the dribble is unexcusable for a PG. Don’t dribble into a double team, pass before it gets there.
It's been the story at Maryland over the years
Go back in the video archives and notice how often the guys near the basket drop or miss or fumble the pass from the point because they don’t expect a pass into them. It’s not the guard’s fault it’s the players under the rim who just can’t get it into their head that the ball could come to them at any moment.
Speaking of point guards
Looks like Sean Miller is going to add a PG to his already top ranked class for 2012. PG Kaza Keane from Canada thru NC has reclassed to 2012. That gives him a starting five recruited this year.
Was simply talking about facts folks, relax
I made no mention that we screwed that up. But since you mentioned it. If your a college bball fan then you always watch a Sean Miller. It was info I thought was news since we all know how much we need a good true PG in this class???
No problem with your post.
nice little nugget of info. Let me know when you find us that stud Juco PG for 2012.
agreed agreed.
that ship has sailed and he didn’t want to wear the red white & yellow.
moving on.
As i said in another thread
We need to augment his assist stats with “shoulda been’s” and he gets much better…. I counted at least 4 absolute assist locks that teammates didn’t finish on… and i wasn’t even trying — so its probably more.
He deserves a little more credit…. forget the stats — we are a MUCH better team now then at the start of the year and really Len has been way more spotty then Pe’ – so hey, he needs some credit for that.
aren't we pretty much 'stuck' with him next year, too?
Stuck isn’t really a fair word here. But how does the situation get better? He IS our guy for next year, right?
The situation gets better by:
1) Players finishing. How many times have Padge, Len, Pankey and Weijs missed layups this season after getting a pass on the post? BTW…Shaq is shooting 83% from the floor!!
2) Players putting in work on improving their hands.
3) Pe’Shon learning to accept the mistakes of others (1 and 2 should help that).
4) Players hitting wide open shots from deep. We’re NOT a good shooting team from deep.
5) Pe’Shon getting some help from a back-up PG (Allen) so that Stogs and Faust can focus 100% on what they do well.
6) Everybody learning to play with one another. How many freshmen do we have?
One thing that really frustrated me last night.
There were numerous occasions where the ball handler was in trouble and not one damn person came up to help. If someone is getting double teamed in a pressure defense you HAVE to come help out. I couldn’t believe our players would just watch it happen resulting in a turnover.
Fear the Turgle!
I notice Stoglin taking blame
for the one turnover Pe’ had in the first half when he was stuck by halfcourt
and lets go to Bentleys...
by johnnyrobs13 on Feb 8, 2012 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
I noticed that too
which is why TOs may not necessarily be the fault of the person who gets credited for them.
Forget TOs and Passes
I don’t care what position you are or who your coach is – MAKE YOUR FREE THROWS! Missing the front end twice worries me a lot more than a couple of turnovers or bad passes. That, IMO, is inexcusable.
As many mistakes as he makes
the offensive flow relies on him. When he sits, you often see a couple of weak offensive possessions where we set failed screens, almost lose the ball, and wind up with a poor Stoglin shot. Turge is then forced to put him back in, with the end result being that he doesn’t sit enough.
He’s crucial to the team. He helps big time with outlets after defensive rebounds, always shouting for the ball to get it moving up court, and he keeps the ball moving around the perimeter.
All Good discussion
But I still think you got to leave the kid alone. Even those that are down on him, would you really argue he is below expectations? Again, look at my original post, he was not a top 100 recruit, never intended to be a premier player. We all agree that ideally he is a backup combo guard being forced to play starter minutes at the 1 because we have no other options. Got to stick with him.
It’s easy to say, “there needs to be a solution”, but one is not going to come this year, and probably not next year either.
He's always been my favorite
His personality, swag, and how much he cares has made him my favorite hands down. he was my favorite freshman last year, and he’s still my favorite this year. He’s trying hard too.
I’m sure he reads this board too, and seeing some of the stuff here would NOT help his confidence at all. Yall are blaming him for way too much. When he does something good, no credit, yet the second he makes a mistake, or when someone drops one of his passes, you guys are calling him horrible.
He is just coming off injury, did you all forget that? He didn’t have the first 8 or 9 games to make early mistakes like everyone. He pretty much had 1 or 2 games then had to jump right into ACC play.
Yall are blaming him for his passes, and the people for dropping them when that is how he has always played. I’ve watched alot of his videos on youtube and he has great floor vision and he KNOWS when to pass it because he knows when his player will be open. If he softens up his pass, chances are likely that the other team can get the ball, just as easily as someone on our team can get the ball. He throws the ball like he does for a reason. If he would throw one of his outrageous passes to Jordan Williams, who could catch stuff like that, everyone would be praising him. It’s time we stop blaming him, and start blaming those who aren’t ready for the ball.
Regardless of his passing, i will say he did have a rough game. I’m shocked he missed his free throws, because he usually hits those. In the last few games, he made his free throws, when others like Stoglin, were missing them. His shooting is getting better, but obviously needs more work. Nothing that can’t be fixed though.
I just don’t like how everyone is practically giving up on him saying we need a true PG, or a real PG, and calling Howard a back up etc. He’s here for a reason, Gary Williams liked him enough to offer him a scholarship for a reason. He was great last year, and he is getting better this year.
I'm not saying we need to replace Pe' at all.
His biggest problem seems to be transitioning – by that I mean if all he is asked to do is shoot, he’s fine. If he’s asked to distribute, he’s fine. But if he is asked to distribute, protect the ball, and shoot when necessary he can’t seem to make the transition from one to the other mode.
Fear the Turgle!
It also doesn't help watching Stoglin
Watching TS blow up right before his eyes while he gets hurt and misses half of the season has got to put added pressure on him. He has lost some confidence and plays more tentatively then I remember from last year.
Take a Step Back
Pe’ is our point guard of the future. He has two more years in which I fully expect him to be All-ACC and lead our team to victories. He is a winner, he has swag and he is not afraid of anything. Sure, he has had some issues with turnovers and poor shot selection. But defensively, he has been superb. His leadership is underrated, as well. He has intangibles that are on par with Mosley. He will get out of this stretch of rough play and prove all the haters wrong. Mark my words.
by OldLineLeader on Feb 9, 2012 1:50 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Now his leadership will have to come from the bench
An ACL tear, which I have right now, is about 6 months of rehab after the operation.for ‘Pe. It’s 9 months for me because I’m over 60 Looks like Howard and Allen will be in competition for starting PG next year unless Turge picks up a good Juco.
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