Stoglin Leads Maryland to First ACC Road Win at Clemson, 64-62
by Ben Broman on Feb 7, 2012 9:54 PM EST
in Basketball
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PrintMaryland basketball never makes it easy, but this time the heartache was worth it: the Terrapins nearly lost a 14-point second-half lead, but Terrell Stoglin scored 27 and Maryland grabbed their first road win of the season, defeating Clemson in Littlejohn Coliseum 64-62.
Like many of the Terps' contests this year, It was a pretty nervy affair when it didn't have to be. The first half was inartful and turnover-filled, but Maryland was able to take four-point lead into the break and build on it with a great start to the second half. They led by 14 with only 11 minutes to play, and things appeared very nearly in the bag. Maryland then went the next six minutes scoring only five points, allowing Clemson to bounce back with a 22-10 run, partially thanks to their trademark pressure defense. Maryland shot only 4-9 from the line over the final 4:02, endangering their shrinking lead.
The ending sequence was particularly strange: Clemson took the inbound from the baseline down two with 1.7 seconds left, and threw a wild pass down court. Sean Mosley caught it with his foot on the baseline, which gave Clemson another opportunity. Andre Young nearly made good use of the second chance, but his last-second heave drew iron and fell harmlessly from the rim.
This team has had trouble all year keeping its foot on the pedal, and slowdowns or mental lapses seem par for the course. Had they been able to power through that tonight and finish off the game without it turning into a nail-biter, we'd very likely be calling this the game in which Maryland turned that long-awaited corner. Instead, it's progress, but only of a sort. They're still as frustrating as ever, but those spots of potential keep shining brighter and brighter.
Make no mistake, the first 30 minutes or so were actually quite impressive. People will say Clemson isn't very good, but they've given every team in the ACC a run - including Duke, whom they lost to by only 6 - and Maryland very nearly blew them out of the building. Terrell Stoglin was on another level tonight and was a huge reason for Maryland's success, but the defense was quietly very good as well. These are things to build on.
Still, it's tough to see this bunch going too far until they tighten up they get steadier, and perhaps mentally tougher as well. That will become easier as more talent and depth gets into the program in the coming years, mind you, but there's been no real killer instinct this season. It's disappointing.
As far as individuals go, I'll start with Stoglin: he was simply outstanding. We often sort of gloss over Stogs because we've come to expect excellence, but tonight's showing was above and beyond his usual outing. He had 27 points but those 27 came on only 11 shots, which is a far cry from the 21 on 20 he had against UNC last Saturday. He was deadly efficient with the ball in his hands, and had his usual spattering of "Did that really just happen?" plays, including an absurd fast break in-and-out, finished over Devin Booker.
For a quick side note: Disregard his height. Disregard his defense. Disregard his mentality. Stoglin is easily the most purely skilled player Maryland's had in at least a decade - maybe ever. It pains me to use a Jay Williams phrase, but he's right: Stoglin dribbles with the ball on a string. His control is impeccable. His sense of space is extraordinary. And he's cannier than perhaps anyone I've seen play live. He has dozens of shortcomings, but for these reasons he's worth the price of admission every single night.
But he didn't just score tonight, for what it's worth - he pitched in four steals, which might be some of that effort Mark Turgeon has come to demand from him on the defensive end, and continued to look for others' shots when he doesn't have his. No, those aspects aren't great, but when the rest of his game is so fantastic, they're easy to overlook, especially when they're as adequate as they were tonight.
The other standout was, I suppose, Sean Mosley. He was basically invisible in the first half and had a boneheaded play at the end, but was on fire in the second and was a big reason Maryland was able to pull away. In the first half, Maryland was entirely reliant on Stoglin. In the second, Mosley got buckets when Stoglin couldn't, and the offense ran like butter. He had only one turnover and played strong defense all night, as we've come to expect from Sugar; this is Good Sean, the one with which Maryland can make noise in the back stretch of the ACC.
Ashton Pankey might've qualified here as well. He pulled up lame midway through the second, which was a shame to see because he played a quietly strong game, putting up 6 points and 9 boards. Hopefully he'll be okay; it'd be a shame to see him go down after putting in such a workmanlike performance.
The last guy I'll mention is Pe'Shon Howard. I love Pe' - I was Mr. MVPe' a year ago this time, remember - but I don't think anyone would say he didn't have a howler of a game tonight. 1-5 from the floor, missed two front ends on one-and-ones down the stretch, 3 turnovers, 2 assists, and one crucial foul on a late three-pointer. (Thankfully, Young missed two of three free throws.) He continues to be a good team defender but middling one-on-one on the perimeter, and wasn't at all the steadying force Maryland really needs at point guard. Too many ambitious passes, too many questionable decisions.
I feel for Howard, for two reasons. The first being that he played 19 minutes of the second half tonight - in the final eight or so, he was obviously drained. He probably could've sat another two or three minutes, letting Stoglin or Faust run things at the 1. More to the point, he seems bereft of confidence at the moment. He kicked the scorer's table (nearly earning a technical) after a turnover, and threw his hands up in bewilderment after Berend Weijs fumbled a pass. You have to wonder if he's inside his own head right now, because it certainly seems that way. He needs to slow down, relax, and let the game flow a little more.
I've always said this about Pe'Shon: if he was on a slightly better team, with some more skilled big men and a true point guard, where he could be the primary backup at either guard spot and be the true combo he is, everyone would love him. As it stands, he's being asked to do something I'm not sure he's capable of doing. Not his fault, but Turgeon needs to find a solution.
As a team, turnovers were the big culprit, but otherwise I don't have many qualms. Defense was pretty good aside from letting Milton Jennings get loose once or twice, and the offense clicked well when Stoglin was shooting. The real problems came from Clemson's press and the all-around sloppy first half, but we've come to expect some loose play from Maryland's half-court offense this season.
Have to be a bit discouraged at Maryland taking their foot off Clemson's throat and nearly allowing a comeback, but I'm also pretty well encouraged that they were in that position to begin with, and that they didn't lose it in the end. The Terrapins needed this one, and I'm glad to see them get it. They've been scrambling for a foothold, and a road ACC win just might be the one they need.
More forthcoming later. But I almost forgot to mention: Nick Faust can dunk. He'll posterize his fair share of hapless defenders in the next two years.
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We played just awful
And still won. Which means that on terrible days were a bottom third ACC teams, but most other games we’re at least a middle of the pack ACC team. A good sign I guess.
We didn't play awful
But yeah, we definitely did for parts, especially at the end and I think unfortunately we are mostly remembering that – was definitely painful to watch! At times in the middle of the game, we actually looked really good – especially when Mosely started lighting things up.
awful.......
Shut you mouff… LOL!!!…. We played exactly how a team with our talent and experience should play. Who is fooling whe here. We won on the road. Awesome…..Not awful
by TwerpsNoMore on Feb 7, 2012 11:51 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think we're a bad team......just inconsistent and young....I think on a good night we can play w/ anyone (as evidenced by the UNC game)
I don’t think Clemson is that bad either….They are a middle of the pack ACC team….similar to us, MIami, NC State (teams we were competitive with on their floor) Above that lower tier Wake, BC, GT, Va Tech…..but below that higher tier UVA, Duke, UNC, Fla St.
At least that’s how I see both teams.
by TurtleShel716 on Feb 7, 2012 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
We aren't a bad team
We just don’t have “winners”. There’s a reason why some teams win a ton of close games every season and others lose them. This team doesn’t have that winning element yet.
I wasn't home to see the game, but a friend gave me a play-by-play
over the phone of the last two minutes as I was driving home. It’s a wonder I didn’t have a wreck. Still, this is a season of growing pains, and any win—especially a road win—is a good one.
by Jason Middlekauff on Feb 7, 2012 10:03 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
wasn't on AM radio?
assuming you’re in the area. I listened to the second half on the radio as i drove home. very frustrating.
how many front end 1&1s did we miss?
Definitely did not turn a corner.
How often have we seen this pattern? Play well early, build up an impressive lead, blow it and have to scramble back. Luckily, Clemson just wasn’t good enough to make us pay. Nonetheless, a win is a win.
Any video of the Faust dunk?
I missed the first half
Yes, me too.
Someone please post if it’s available.
by 1 proud terp on Feb 7, 2012 10:12 PM EST up reply actions
Pe is just absolutely lacking confidence
You can see it in his face after every play. It doesn’t help that at least 6 of his passes over the last couple games have been bobbled out of bounds
I hope this is something he can snap out of soon. And a big game, or at least a solid one, could do that
He easily should have had...
… at least 4 more assists then he did — great passer in perfect position that his teammates fumbled away….
I think we should have a special stat for him - “SBAST” – Shoulda Been assists
Sean Mosley
Congrats to myself for scoring over a 1,000 points in college, but I have to thank all my teammates throughout colllege because without them sharing the ball this would not be possible. Truly blessed!!!!
Like · · 9 minutes ago via mobile ·
by bloodwatermission on Feb 7, 2012 10:07 PM EST reply actions
LOL, "Congrats to myself"
My favorite tweet was Stogs’: “Gottemm.”
by Ben Broman on Feb 7, 2012 10:08 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I didn't like Stoglin celebrating
at the end of the game. Dude, your team just blew a 14 point lead, playing horribly down the stretch and ended up not-losing due to a three pointer that was off by an inch or so against a team that was 3-5 in ACC play. C’mon man.
Not to pick nits...
but that shot at the end was off by WAY more than an inch. It looked close from the initial angle, but when they showed the view from behind the backboard it was clear that it barely even touched the left side of the rim.
But your point is still taken.
Hey...
..let them enjoy the victory — it was a good hurdle for them…
Clemson may be 3-5 but all FIVE of their losses were 6 pts or less! And they BLEW OUT Fl. St…. and jennings was back so they probably would have wont he last 2 with him (base don how he played today)…. AND under Brownell as coach only 3 teams have beaten clemson at littlejohn -- UNC, DUKE, and MD!
I think it was a very underappreciated win!
Clemson isn't even top 150
in RPI. Close losses and moral victories don’t matter. To quote Davin Meggett, “You win or you don’t. Either she’s pregnant or she’s not.” Clemson is 11-12 (3-6) overall. They don’t win games.
It’d be like us storming the court if we beat UVA later in the season. Act like you’ve been there, Stoglin.
we aren't
exactly a national title contender this year… and didnt even MAKE the NIT last year… so in response…. well, Stoglin HASN’T been there.
Again, let’s not critize them for enjoying the moment — it was the first real road win those guys have got in over a year. Would you rather they not care?
It's like interviewing for a job
Dress for the job you want, not the job you have.
Act like winning a road game is business as usual, and winning road games will become “business as usual.”
Again, it doesn’t really make a difference at all, it just rubbed me the wrong way that our players expectations seem to be so low that this is exciting.
Their good players made some big plays down the stretch (Jennings in particular)...
Which helped a lot. I think they are just like us, scrappy, very inconsistent except we have Stogin…..
I think they have some good talent and that press really killed our rhythm towards the end…If they had played that more of the game they probably would’ve won, plus hitting their free throws (I think they shot pretty poorly in this aspect)…
I usually am a huge critic of Peshon. I don’t think he is a starting ACC PG, but some of the decisions and shots he made at the end were a pure result of fatigue (missing foul shots on the front of the rim is a sign of fatigue), and Turgeon has to manage him better. He made some 3’s and brought the ball up every time generally getting us into offense. That PG for Clemson was freaking quick and Peshon defended him a lot of the game so Stoglin wouldn’t have to…That would tire a lot of players out. Just saying.
He made a 3 and missed all of his other shots. He drove into 4 defenders on a “break” and didn’t even get the ball on the rim. It’s like he wants to be Stogs but he can’t. He sure tries to though. Bigs are gonna drop passes.. he needs to understand that and not get pissed when it happens.
by juuustin on Feb 7, 2012 10:27 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Len just cannot string 2 games together...
almost invisible in this one
He did have that one huge bucket on the dish from Mosley
He needs to hit that FT though.
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
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by John Stephens on Feb 8, 2012 8:16 AM EST up reply actions
Ben, Turge's TO calling strategy should be discussed.
It’s clear he lets the kids fight through, but is it the best strategy? Barely held on tonight, I think he could have tried to stop the bleeding once Clemson got back into single digits. Might have helped Pe’ catch his wind as well.
Agree
I think there was one point there where they made 2 3’s in a row. Was definitely looking for a TO there.
I also don’t agree with trying to slow the game down with only like a 5pt. lead and 5 mins. left, especially against a team that wants to play slow-down ball. There’s probably a case of not having the horses/energy to do it, but would’ve expected them to try and attack quickly to beat their press, which was giving us fits.
only listened to the game, but
every time i was yelling at my steering wheel for a timeout, turge seemed to call one. i think he’s slightly conservative with the timeouts, but it’s not like we had 4 going into the final 2 minutes, like UNC did against us.
also with this young of a team, a timeout can also show a lack of confidence in your players, no matter what you say during the TO. and as we’ve seen in previous games, a 30-second timeout doesn’t solve our defensive woes, or our inability to pass the ball around the perimeter.
Didn't see the game, but it sounds like we kept our pattern
Build up a nice lead and then hang on at the end. Sounds like many of our players ran out of gas. I sure hope Pankey isn’t hurt badly. That would make our team too thin in the front to have much of a chance of a big upset in the next few weeks.
Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see ’Pe is our weakest link. I bet Turge does something before next summer to bring in a true PG. Juco maybe?
Should it have been MD ball?
Mosely never really had possession of the ball since he was out of bounds….so is that the same as Clemson just throwing the ball out of bounds, and therefore MD ball? Just curious…
I am also somewhat confused by this call.
If anyone who has a really good handle on the rules could clarify this call, I’d certainly appreciate it.
my thought
Section 1. Out of Bounds—Player, Ball
Art. 1. A player shall be out of bounds when he or she touches the floor or
any object other than a player on or outside a boundary line. An airborne
player’s status shall be where he or she was last in contact with the floor.
Art. 2. The ball shall be out of bounds when it touches a player who is out of
bounds; any other person, the floor or any object on or outside a boundary;
the supports or back of the backboard; or the ceiling, overhead equipment
or supports.
Art. 3. The ball shall be out of bounds when any part of the ball passes over
the backboard from any direction.
Section 2. Ball Caused to Go Out of Bounds
Art. 1. The ball shall be caused to go out of bounds by the last player to
touch or to be touched by the ball before the ball goes out, provided that
the ball is out of bounds because of touching something other than a player
who is out of bounds.
Art. 2. When the ball is out of bounds because of touching or being touched
by a player who is on or outside a boundary, such player shall have caused
the ball to go out of bounds.
Section 5. Throw-in Provisionscont.
Art. 2. No player other than the thrower-in shall:
a. Perform the throw-in or be out of bounds after a designated-spot
throw-in begins.Rule 9 / Violationsand penalties 119
b. Be out of bounds when he or she touches or is touched by the ball
after it has crossed the vertical inside plane of the boundary line.
Because they inbounded the ball where the throw-in was located, that means the official believed that Mosley was not inbounds at all when he caught the ball. Thus, the ball was never in play on the court, and it was brought back to the inbounds location.
If Mosley had any part of his feet (or body, etc) inbounds, it would have been inbounded where Mosley was when he caught it partially inbounds/outof bounds or inbounds while falling out of bounds.
"A new era has dawned in Maryland Athletics..."
by bball purist on Feb 7, 2012 11:13 PM EST up reply actions
Questions
So, if the ball was never inbounded at all, then why did they run .5 seconds off the clock? It was at 1.7 seconds on the first inbounds pass, and 1.2 seconds on the second one.
Also, if Sean had not caught the ball, and it never touched the floor – i.e. Clemson simply threw it out of bounds – would they get a second chance to inbound it?
I'm confused by the call
Because the call, according to the announcers, was that the play was not a proper in-bounds play because the Clemson player through it out of bounds. I thought generally when you don’t make a proper in-bounds play it is a turnover and the other team should get the ball.
Or were they saying it was an illegal in-bound play on MDs part because Sean Mosley was out of bounds when the ball was first touched?
The Announcers forgot the second part
Since Mosley caught the ball out of bounds it’s still Clemson ball but they get it back where the ball was thrown in – on the baseline. Initially I was screaming at the TV because I thought Mosely had touched it inbounds and then stepped on the line which would have put the ball on the sideline with 1.2 seconds.
Either way I have NO idea why Mosely is even touching that ball at all. There was no Clemson player near him and the ball was clearly flying out of bounds. If he lets it go the Terps get it under Clemson’s basket to seal the win.
The clock should have been re-set to 1.7 for the last play.
"Have a good time...all the time." - Viv Savage
Watching on ESPNU they explained it all
They put the 1.7 back on the clock. It was explained that when Mosely caught the ball, one foot was on the line. Therefore he was out of bounds and there was never an inbounds play. Basically, he threw the ball out of bounds but since it was touched by a MD player OB they retained possession.
the only time time would have come off the clock
would have been if Sean jumped in the air from inbounds, caught the ball in the air (starting the clock), and landed out of bounds, thereby stopping the clock which runs on contact with the ball. However, the ball would have been inbounded at the point where he caught it since he was still considered to be inbounds when he went in the air.
Rules are crazy stuff sometimes. As a ref, I saw many different situations that happened. Basketball refs see a lot more stuff than football refs, so by the time they’ve moved up to major D1, they’ve seen most every situation.
Little finer examples of game situations:
Team A has ball in their front court on offense . On the wing, Team A Player 1 passes ball to Player 2 at the point. Defender on Team B deflects the ball, and then the ball deflects off of Player 2’s hand and goes into the backcourt. Player 2 retrieves the ball. The ref calls backcourt. Is the call correct?
First play of the game…. Team A Player 1 takes a jump shot at his basket. Ball bounces off from the rim, Team B defender tips it off the backboard. Team A Player 2 then taps the ball back to the basket. It doesn’t go in, but Player 2 is fouled by Team B defender. The ref calls a personal foul, and awards two shots to Player 2? Is this call correct?
"A new era has dawned in Maryland Athletics..."
by bball purist on Feb 8, 2012 10:00 AM EST up reply actions
I think the real question is
why did Sean try to catch the ball?
But the fact of the matter is that
the refs ruled the play a “no-play” essentially since a UMD player who was established as an out-of-bounds player caught the ball before it went out-of-bounds. Because it is a violation to throw an inbound pass directly out-of-bounds but a UMD player is the reason the ball went directly out-of-bounds (since you can’t say definitively whether the ball would have been out-of-bounds or not), the refs decided to re-run the play. Therefore, no time should run off the clock.
Ben, could you clarify something for me please?
When it comes to Stoglin, what exactly do you mean by “most purely skilled player”, especially after dismissing defense and mentality?
Don't mean to speak for Ben,
but when it comes to pure skill, defense and mentality don’t apply. Pure skill is more so what the guy can do with the ball in his hands and perhaps athletic ability as well. Stogs can do it all with the ball: he can shoot (whether it be off the dribble, off a screen, step-up, etc), he can drive and finish over players that he gives up over half a foot to and over 50 pounds, he can dish, he can make people look foolish with a crossover; he can do it all with the ball. Not to mention, he has exceptional speed. Probably the most purely skilled player we’ve had since Steve Francis.
There is some skill for defense, but much of it is mental; same goes for, obviously, mentality
When I refer to pure skill, though, it’s something that is inherent. You have it or you don’t. You can improve upon it, but only slightly. The things Stogs can do with the ball sometimes seems inhuman, not to mention that he’s turning into a sniper from deep. Skill = handling, feel, shot, etc., as opposed to things governed by effort or athleticism. I consider Nick Faust to be Stoglin’s antithesis FWIW.
And terps3, Francis is a good call and it’s probably close, but remember how much more athletic Francis was than Stoglin. I’m not sure Stogs can actually dunk, and he’s not blindingly fast or even that quick. If Stoglin’s skillset was in Francis’ body …
One note
Stogs’ speed running w/o the ball would not be considered fast, but like John Wall in the ESPN sports science show, Stogs does not lose much time dribbling up with the ball versus w/o the ball – he’s deceptively fast up court.
"A new era has dawned in Maryland Athletics..."
by bball purist on Feb 7, 2012 11:16 PM EST up reply actions
DECEPTIVELY FAST................... for rizzle!
He def has game and keeps you into the game as GV did.
by TwerpsNoMore on Feb 8, 2012 12:00 AM EST up reply actions
Good move in the second half by Clemson's coach...
to go to a 1-3-1 zone. It caused the Terps, and Pe’shon in particular, to completely lose their cool. Stogs and Moseley saved our bacon there.
Atleast Jay Williams spoke up on the hack that Faust got at the end of the game...we're averaging one end of game OMG call...other than that though I thought the refs called the game pretty good
Odd play at the end with Mosely… it ruled that the ball never went inbounds even though Mosely caught it out of bounds so it technically never went in bounds? Did we catch a break there or is that technically how that ruling works in that situation?
Had to miss the second half of the game.
Hope Pe’ turns it around. You can see that he has moments of greatness. He really knows how to thread the needle and may have been a part of the play of the season when he zipped one to Faust for the dunk.
He’s still a sophomore and I hope with a healthy summer he’ll be able to up his game to the next level. Totally agree that he’d be a great back-up guard, but right now he’s all we have. With Stogs and Allen spelling him next season, maybe there will be less pressure on the kid. Maybe that will be enough to get him to where we need him to be.
On Stogs, he was making play after play in the first half. I know he’s always balling, but today he seemed out of this world. We’re so lucky to have a guy like him on this team; we’d be in the ACC cellar without him.
Stogs D and Pe's passing
I was really impressed with Stog’s defense in this game—I think there might’ve even been another steal of his that got credited to someone else after he tipped the ball. He was definitely putting in work tonight and can’t get enough credit.
As far as Pe goes… he definitely does get a big piece of the blame for not handling the press late in the game. He picked up his dribble a few times and let himself get trapped in a corner. He needs to look to pass out of that more quickly. On his passing though, there were probably about 8-10 points left on the floor by stone hands on good passes from Pe. I can totally understand why he’d be frustrated—I would be too. Hopefully it comes around for him, because we really need him to bring it together. He is our PG for at least another full year.
Huge Pe'shon fan! I'm on the MVPe bandwagon!
I love him to death. Yall are way too hard on him, and i know he reads this board and sees the stuff people say! He needs to get his confidence back, cause he was really great last year. Some of his passes were a bit much, but hey you can’t blame him for people not being ready for the ball. You should always be ready for the ball, and ready to catch it. He’s a great passer. His scoring could use a bit of work, but i like i said it’s all confidence. He’ll get it. Last year didn’t he lead the team in 3P %? People forget that he didn’t have the first 8 or 9 games to make mistakes like everyone else. Pe’ keep your head up!
When a pass hits the player right in the hands...
And they don’t catch it, more often than not that’s on the receiver, not the passer. Just like you said, always be ready for the ball. I think some hand drills are in order…
I still believe in Pe and think he can turn it around, but he can’t do it alone!
thank you! you understand!
he throws a great pass, yet gets no credit. But when it goes out of bounds due to the reciever not getting it, it’s all “OMG PE’SHON IS HORRIBLE, WE NEED A NEW PG!” No, you need to tell people to stop having butterfingers, and be ready for the ball at all times.
Well he does throw the ball drenched in mustard sometimes.
We all know Padge and Len don’t have the hands to handle it, Pe’ should too.
by 1 proud terp on Feb 7, 2012 10:39 PM EST up reply actions
Good point
Pe needs to wipe off the mustard and slow it down a tad. Gotta know his teammates at this point.
CHANGE THE FASTBALL TO A BOUNCE PASS
If Peshon can practice driving thru traffic and getting off a bounce pass as opposed to jumping up and releasing the speed ball Weijs and Len would could catch them a lot more often…and on the opposite side if Peshon drives into the lane jumping up our bigs need to anticpate and be ready bringing the ball into their body as they catch it.
I’m sure their practicing these plays but anymore more DRILLS that they can constantly practice this would be really helpful cause we seem to give away a good chunk of could be points each game to these plays. If we still can’t get it Turgeon needs to tell Peshon to start shooting more floaters…atleast than we’d have a shot and a rebound opportunity!
...unless it's Parker
Peshon left a beautiful bounce pass right in Parker’s hands and he fumbled it. The one to Weijs and another 1-2 hit people right in the hands as well. He’s tried it all, they just aren’t catching them.
I really don’t get how you guys can basically say that our players suck at catching passes, so our PG should play down to their level—shouldn’t we be asking the other guys to step their games up instead of asking Pe to dumb it down for them?
If he’s threading needles and takes the mustard off, a brilliant look turns into an easy steal for the opposition and you guys will crucify him for it. If he stays with the safe passes and doesn’t put anything on them, all the more so. Slow passes are easily telegraphed.
I'm a fan of Pe', but I disagree
He can’t make passes that aren’t likely to be caught. His responsibility is to get the offense rolling, and that just won’t happen if his passes are resulting in TOs.
I’d much rather see him make the safe pass so that we at least have a chance of scoring that possession. That bullet to Nick was beautiful, but I’d take that one back if I also got to take back the ones that our players don’t have the hands and wherewithal to handle.
Pe’ would wreck it if he could dump passes to JW, who had the softest of hands. Let’s hope Cleare can catch lasers too.
Pe will look better next year, even if he doesn't change a thing
If he sticks to safe passes AND slows them down though, it’ll probably cause more turnovers from getting picked off.
I still say that all our big men should get stuck in a batting cage and have tennis balls shot at them at like 60 mph until they figure out how to catch a pass. They could all do it for like 15 minutes each, right after their 250 free throws. ;)
Reports are saying that Cleare does have good hands, so I’m hopeful for that at least. Pe does make his mistakes (that last 5 minutes tonight is a great example), but I really feel like at least half the problem falls on the team, not him. He’ll look a lot better next year as the rest of the team progresses, I’m sure.
*half the problems with the passing, that is
The last 5 minutes was about handles, which is all him.
Agree- funny thing is if Peshon was UNC's point guard he'd be getting All-ACC talk right now for his brilliant passes and court vision
Someone said it below- Peshon’s strength is his strength…He has a great handle and can use his body strength to overcome contact and keep control of the ball. When he’s huffing and puffing he needs to rest and this is where Turgeon is challenged right now. Fortunately tonight Stoglin was operating at a different level and when Peshon was out it was seamless as compared to the UNC game where Stoglin was allready tired and was trying to play point all at the same time. It looks like Stoglin is now the answer for giving Peshon needed rest minutes. I wish we’d give Thomas a try in the first half of some of these games to buy some minutes because he does have a solid handle and a pure shooters touch from beyond the arc. If we don’t find a way to rotate our backcourt UNC and DUKE will only anticipate and look forward to the second half when our backcourt gets tired.
Jonathan Thomas...our backup point guard to buy minutes with and rest Peshon and keep Stoglin from being overtaxed which if it works out potentially gives us late game backcourt gusto
BEFORE MARYLAND – Earned Player of the Year honors from Frederick News-Post after helping Titans to Monocacy Valley Athletic League title in 2009… Led MVAL in 3-pointers made for team that went 22-5… Also earned honorable mention All-Met and first team All-Gazette honors… Led team in 3-point percentage, steals and rebounds for coach Dan Wagner… Played in 2007 and 2008 for Towson Catholic HS, where his teams were a combined 59-12 and won two MIAA titles for coach Josh Pratt
Thomas has skill
but he doesn’t have the skill to play with ACC calibur talent. There is a difference between being able to dominate inferior talent and being able to play against those that you are evenly matched against or not as good as them.
He should atleast get an opportunity if there's a chance...if he does well his relief role would be huge!
He could be a surprise like a Dave Neal except he’d be an off the bench point guard… I agree it’s probably not wise to throw him into the Duke or UNC game, but it’d be interesting to see how he’d play against BC or one of the lower tier teams. When the season started we were all enamored with Faust understandably, but in those early game Thomas’ handle and three point stroke both did not go unnoticed…it’s worth the risk to give him a shot with the 40 minute point guard situation ie- no viable sub except Stoglin at point guard right now…when Stoglin and Peshon are too tired we’re ending these games with exhaustation turnovers/ passes to players that run the other way, etc. Thomas’s role could give both Peshon in a roundabout way Stoglin the valuable breather they need to help us close these games without fatal late game turnovers based on fatique.
I agree...
…put him in a minute or so before a TV timeout, and Pe’ could get as much as 3-4 minutes of rest. Right now, he’s gassed by the end of the game. Try it against BC, to see if Thomas handles it well.
Pe' had an awful game, and he knows it.
I still think he hasn’t fully recovered from his injury. Last season he seemed so much quicker and more confident. I’m not going to bash him needlessly, he’s in a funk and I hope he regains his mojo. I want to see him finish this year strong, we’ll need him next year throwing sweet dishes into the soft hands of Shaq and swinging the ball on the wing to an open Jake for 3!!!
by 1 proud terp on Feb 7, 2012 10:37 PM EST up reply actions
Just posted the same sort of thing!
He doesn’t get too much love on this board, and while I didn’t see him miss those 1-and-1s, I still support the kid. Maybe if his sophomore counterpart Stogs wasn’t so prolific, we wouldn’t be saying he’s a back-up.
He doesn’t really seem to have a mid-range game; he either goes to the hole or pops threes. I think a good jumper could really improve how he plays.
in the temple game where Pe' got 15 points, he utilized his mid jumper. It was pretty nice actually.
I would prefer him to shoot mid jumpers than 3’s or driving to the rim. I still remember his sorta mid jumper shot last year at the game against College of Charleston, which happened to be the winning shot.
I don’t get the whole back-up thing either. Oh well maybe i’m biased, but people are way too hard on him.
I remember at least one ESPN writer saying we'd found the next GV after that C of C game
The way he’s playing right now, yeah, he’d be a good back-up. You can’t deny that. Even if you think he’s playing well, you’d still have to say he’d be good coming off the bench. Just like Stoglin would, or players like Rivers and Barnes.
I don’t want someone to take Pe’s spot. They’re going to have the same kind of growing pains, albeit with perhaps a little more talent to overshadow bad decision-making. Experienced guards can be so valuable (see: 2002 NCAA Championship), and I’m hoping Pe’ plays well enough to earn starts next year and the year after.
Pe's Strength
is his strength, not his quickness, not his handle. I hope he realizes this and plays SOLID AND STRONG, that is what he does best.
by RTP Terp on Feb 7, 2012 11:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I was less pissed off by his passes, than I was his missing the two front ends, the two terrible drives that got stuffed, the foul on the 3pointer, and him continually picking up his dribble directly into the Clemson trap. That’s the kind of stuff you cannot have from your PG. He needs to be smarter with the ball or else it is going to continually give us huge problems.
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
Follow me on Twitter
by John Stephens on Feb 8, 2012 8:22 AM EST up reply actions
Gisele Bundchen says...
“Pe’shon cannot f—-ing throw the ball and catch the ball at the same time”. I agree that Pe made some good passes that his teammates mishandled. But I think Ben summed up his play very well: “Too many ambitious passes, too many questionable decisions”. Pe needs to slow down and use his head a little more, and stop trying to make the highlight passes. However, I am not ready to give up on him. I am still optimistic that he will bloom, perhaps next year. If we can bring in a young point guard to take some minutes and give Pe some rest, and with another year of experience, may he will blossom. At this point, he is not a starting caliber point guard, but we have no better options.
by jmn501 on Feb 8, 2012 9:50 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Perhaps Ben has some inside info. . .
about his NBA Draft projection after his junior year. . . back to the Delorean
by CurrentTerp3 on Feb 7, 2012 11:05 PM EST up reply actions
Offensive goaltend by Jennings
Thebput back to cut it to 2 was still on the cylinder. No call, keeping Clemson in the game….
by terpapins on Feb 7, 2012 10:47 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Agree.. and J Williams was right about the no call on Faust but
then the foul at the other end. Surely we put ourselves in that position but it was sad to see the refs blowing it too.
There were bad calls both ways
Unlike a few recent games, I felt like the bad calls were evenly distributed – if not in our favor.
Face it we are a 35 Minute Team
This is a great basketball team for about 35 minutes. We are so close to being a great team but we cannot put together the whole 40.
by Terrapin Insider on Feb 7, 2012 10:53 PM EST reply actions
So Far But
We didn’tknow how to play with a lead in this game. Not sure why that is, they were probably as fatiued as us but I guess they had mo.
35 minute men
Because we lack depth
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
Follow me on Twitter
by John Stephens on Feb 8, 2012 8:25 AM EST up reply actions
Alex Len needs to learn..
to go for rebounds with both hands. I am getting really, really tired of watching him tip the ball straight to the other team’s wings.
He also needs to take more than 2 shots a game.
I know his PT was limited due to fouls, but he didnt take a shot until the last couple minutes of the game
I'll settle...
for him learning to get rebounds against guys 3-5 inches shorter than he is. Any offense we get from him this year is gravy.
Does it bother anybody else that Pe'Shon doesn't dribble the ball
at all before he shoots his free throws? I mean everybody has their own way of getting ready to shoot but a couple of dribbles seems like a good way to get into a rhythm. Did he have the same technique last year?
Faust's form...
on free throws is also absolutely awful. One dribble and straight up without taking even a split second to square himself.
and btw, Pe missing
those front ends of the 1-1’s at that point in the game was NOT good.
Nice to get this W
with as many times this year as Terps have been on the wrong side of outcome. Give the guys credit for fighting hard in at a very hostile environment. Stogs he has so much talent and heart if he is not 1st team All ACC something is bad wrong. Terps are so young and made some costly mistakes but they are getting better. Big thing is Coach Turg has got to get T. Stogs some help for Maryland to have any shot to run past sweet sixteen next year.
Reeeeelllllaaaaxxxxxx
Good discussion about the game, but I think everyone (the team included) needs to relax. This team is still learning and developing. When I think about the point guard coming back from “broken parts.” The center coming back after missing the first part of the season. The senior witht high ankle sprain. The power forward who is learning to be a starter after being a reserve for the last few years. And, the two guard who is learning to play defense and to pass it (more than shoot it). Then, I think that this team has come a LONG way and has an opportunity to do some interesting things before the end of the year. In the meantime, we just need to take a deep breath or two. Or three.
by Charles2 on Feb 7, 2012 11:15 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
+1,000,000, Charles
I know the basketball fans on this board are very rabid, but we seem to forget these are, for the most part, TEENAGE kids. How many of us got to play A.C.C. basketball? How many of us spent our college years under a microscope getting critiqued for every little decision we made? I understand our team this year isn’t a Top 25 team or even a NCAA tournament team; we all KNEW this from the beginning of the year. Let’s keep supporting this team that busts their ass every day on that court to represent our school and our state with class. The wins and success will come; we’ve got the right guy leading this program; sit back and enjoy the ride.
BTW…Faust’s dunk was #7 on SportsCenter’s Top Ten.
by CarolinaTerp on Feb 8, 2012 5:54 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Next up: Duke
I think I actually want Duke to win in Chapel Hill tomorrow because 1) F*** Henson and 2) wouldn’t want to face them this weekend on a 2-game losing streak. UNC is just more hateable this year.
Duke is always more hateable
To me, UNC always seems pretty harmless in terms of the overall cast of characters and fanbase (Henson being the exception sure).
Duke win @ UNC = better chance for us to beat them
And they’d be ranked higher too, so it’d look better. Go Du… ack, I can’t even say it! It feels so dirty.
Well, UNC's crowd is the tamest crowd I've ever been around
It’s actually somewhat eerie and probably has a lot to do with the 60/40 female-male ratio. Will be going to the game tomorrow so will see how they get up for Duke.
HAHA, I always found it odd as well
Every time I see UNC at home it just seems real flat. Hell, the first couple of rows of there court should be called the retirement section, seems everyone sitting there is 65 and over.
Nick Faust
Just got mentioned multiple times by SVP on Sportscenter, lobbying for his dunk to be in the SC Top 10.
They're actually showing highlights from the game on SC,
I’m pretty surprised, two middle-of-the-road at best ACC teams
I didn't watch this live
But I kept media silence and just finished watching it on DVR. I was shouting at the TV: “PeShon, Take off Greivis Vasquez’s jersey. You are no longer fit to wear it.” Stoglin was amazing, Mosely, Padgett, Pankey were ok. Howard was just awful, even before he got “tired.”
ACC Standings
The win puts Maryland in sole 7th place. Seems hardly something to celebrate, but the difference between the 6th and 7th seed in the conference tournament draw can be huge. I’m not thinking, nor do I even care at this point about making the NCAA tournament field. Finishing in the top half of the regular season standings, and having a shot to make a run in the conference tournament are what concern me.
Maryland stands one game ahead, holding the tiebreaker, so really two games ahead of Clemson, and two or more games ahead of the remaining field. If they can beat Miami at home, and things otherwise remain static, they would share 6th place with the Hurricanes. Miami has the win over Duke, which would give them the tiebreaker, I believe. So Maryland would need to match that with a road win against Duke or Carolina, and would need to otherwise keep pace in the standings against by far the toughest remaining conference schedule. A tall order indeed.
I expect Duke and Carolina to finish 1st and 2nd, and think Maryland would least prefer facing either of those two in a 2nd round conference tournament game, should they make it that far. The path to 6th place, as I see it, would be to somehow get one of two on the road against Duke or Carolina, beat Miami at home, and win two of the remaining four at Ga Tech, versus BC at home, and home/road games against Virginia. Unlikely, but not impossible.
While they may not have turned the corner with tonight’s road win at Clemson, a top half finish in the standings and 6th seed in the conference tournament remain a possibility. A loss would have all but ruled those out.
ACC tourney 2nd game has...
7th seed potentially playing #2 seed
6th seed potentially playing #3 seed
and
5th seed potentially playing #4 seed
So the big gain would be somehow making it to 5th place and joining the tier of (NC State, Virginia, and Miami) and not having to play any of the top 3 in game two. Florida State this year is proving a tougher win than UNC or Duke atleast so far. Come tourney time if I had to play any of the big three early I’d rather play Duke or UNC than Florida State.
Pe
Again, I am seeing a lot of criticism of Pe and his abilities at point guard. I agree with a lot of people’s comments regarding Pe’s offensive play, but I find it absolutely absurd that some posters are saying that he needs to adjust his style of play just because teammates are unable to finish.
Tonight Pe had about 4 dimes that would have been sportscenter highlights (see Pe’s performance at the Goodman classic) had his teammates converted and also raised his ast/to ratio quite a bit. Any player that is dropping dimes that either result in a turnover or a miss are going to loss confidence. Either in their teammates or their own ability. To suggest that a point guard, a floor general should adjust the way he plays to suit the personnel on the court is crazy. His teammates should adjust to the way their point guard plays period.
For example, when I was playing in high school my point guard also liked to thread the needle with quick passes. At first I couldn’t handle them and a lot of assists were turning into turnovers or missed opportunities. Did my coach go to my point guard and tell him to “change” the way he played to suit me? HELL NO! My coach said excellent pass then looked at me and said why the hell didn’t you hang on!!! After that the coach worked with me on improving my hands and I also expected those passes so I got better. The moral of the story is that the Bigs on this team HAVE to improve their handles and hands PERIOD. It is not a PeShon Howard issue, it is a Ashton Pankey, Berend Weijs, James Padgett, and Alex Len issue. As far as doing his job passing. When you give your teammates excellent looks and they miss you lose confidence in them. When you lose confidence in teammates you think you have to rely on your own shot. He tried to get in the paint himself, but got rejected, which further messed with his confidence.
Offensively Pe could do a much better job steadying the half court sets. I agree that he is not the type of floor general that we need and has not matured into that role yet. He is losing confidence in his own game because his main role is to facilitate and get others involved. When he tries to nothing happens. When he tries to create for himself, nothing happens.
Bottomline is teammates need to convert and that will give Pe more confidence in his own ability to find his own offense. Pe seems to feed off of his teammates, and as a young team we tend to have peaks and valleys.
This is not excuse any of his poor play. He hasn’t played particularly well (especially in the 2nd half of the Clemson game), but he hasn’t played as poorly as some have made it seem. He needs help from his teammates.
*All Terp Everything*
THANK YOU
This is exactly what I’ve been saying. Our front four should be stuck in front of a tennis ball machine or whatever they use to work on hands for like 20 minutes a day each. Hell, throw Parker in there, too. Another thing is game awareness—they need to be aware of where the ball is at all times. Bad hands and lack of focus are not Pe’s problem.
If Pe needs to work on anything, it’s his handles and shooting. As long as his passes are on point, they are not one of his problems.
Agreed
His passing is the least of the worries. I would like to see him pass less actually and play the mid-range game. People have mentioned that if he could hit a couple mid range shots, defenses would have to honor that and play him straight up. I see a ton of guards going under screens.
Pe make them pay!!! If he came off those top of the key screens hard and nailed a 19 to 20 footer a couple times, guards would have to play him tighter and that would open up other teammates. Right now, as it is, guards are able to sag off of Pe and play other spots, which hurt our offensive rotation and effectiveness.
I can definitely see the potential had, especially if he was surrounded by better Bigs. Had Jwill stayed we wouldn’t be having this discussion at all. But it is crazy to suggest that a player should not make GOOD plays just because his teammates can’t handle the passes.
I 100% guarantee you that Turgeon was on the sideline yelling at Ashton, James, Len, and Berend about not handling the ball instead of yelling at Pe for making poor decisions or not adjusting his play. Any good coach would. It is not Pe’s fault that he makes a gorgeous pass that teammates can’t handle. It means the team needs to work on hands with drills and exercises.
His offensive play is another story. There is not debating that he could play better. Especially those 2 free throws that could have basically sealed the game.
*All Terp Everything*
You have Pe' throwing bullets and players who can't catch bullets.
One of those things is easy to change. One of them isn’t. Trust me, I want to get in better players so Pe’ can go crazy, but it isn’t changing anytime soon and he needs to adjust in the meantime.
Y’know what’s a really good play? A scoring play. Points. So Pe’ throwing 110mph fastballs that bounce off someone’s hands, as spectacular as the play may be, is not a good play. It’s not his fault necessarily, but he’s the only one who can change that. You’re coming at this like he has only one tool in his arsenal; he can play steady and smooth, too.
I dont think youre appreciating the role of a PG
Peshon is trying to make spectacular passes, and isnt making enough of the simple ones that lead to scoring plays. He’s putting his big men in bad spots with his passes. Hes not throwing simple bounce passes when he should, and he’s throwing no-look fastballs at guys that arent always in a position to score even if they did catch it
The more pressing concern though…check the last 5 minutes of that game. Peshon didnt want the ball. “Floor General”…please. Stoglin handled the ball against that 1-3-1 trap and was the PG the last 5 minutes. Thats a defense a good point guard should absolutely destroy with the dribble, and cross court pass, for easy lay-ups. The reality is Peshon is a nice complementary combo guard that should be spelling starters for 18min/pg
Weijs fumbled a pretty good look last night
forget whether it came from Pe or not
All ACC 1st team
If " Jason" Williams was picking.
1) SCOTT = UVA
2) RIVERS = DUKE
3) PLUMLEE 1 = DUKE
4) PLUMLEE 2 = DUKE
5) COACH K = DUKE
Announcers
Duke Vitale
" Jason " Williams
Stoglin
So the leading scorer in the ACC is NOT 1st team All ACC? Wonder if that would happen if the leading scorer was from Duke or UNC? (retorical question for sure)
by floridasteeler on Feb 8, 2012 8:38 AM EST up reply actions
u said it all
Funny how when a Duke player gets paid to announce his blinders go on so he can be more “objective”. It’s his job to defend the team that’s down and pump the guys who r up. But I had to think hard how Stog’s play has inspired more than it’s been troubling. Even mentioning him with a future pro like Kendall Marshall who I wouldn’t have agreed was walking on water before it still is quite a complement from a Williams. I can still remember as well u might how Jay(son) used to smack the court waiting for Steve Blake to bring the ball up the court. Intimidating style was how Duke played then. With Boozer and that coaches son and Reddick they all melt into the same team after a while so I can’t be sure who played when. But the point about Stog putting up stats like he does. Last night 40%+ of the teams. I can’t say enough about the lack of inside play. Len did make one late but he seems to need the ball high like when Mosley passed one to him. No he ain’t no John Henson or holy mackeral did u see Anthony Davis last night? OK that’s a bit much. He’s a good Tayshun Prince and I don’t care one way of the other.
Howard, well not blaming him because clearly there is a method to Turg’s madness but I’ll be darn I don’t know enough x’s and o’s to say what it is. You get the ball inside to a Len who’s surrounded and can’t do nuthing with the ball and no one can box out on either end. I don’t know the rebounding numbers but Clemson seemed to f over MD like they were playing kids at the school yard. I didn’t see Pankey in the first half and I know he’s a tough kid but the jury is out on him till he starts putting up numbers. Faust is waiting to break away but I don’t see it happening any time soon. I think he needs some weight but I like his attitude. Stoglin shines with confidence. Look at him on the line. Yes he does cherish getting up there. I don’t think I saw Parker in the second half. If there’s a drill for gang rebounding they need to learn it. I would like to see Parker from inside the arc and explode underneath like what’s his face who could jump thru the roof and now is on the Celts. Faust just needs to time his drives better. But you’re right. No pg out there. No one to help even when Stog had trouble. I don’t get it. Sometimes they stand around and wait for someone to tell them what to do. I won’t second guess coach.
I would have been upset if this had been a loss
I’ve preached patience like the majority have here about this season. The team is young, inexperienced in spots and simply outmanned most nights.
But a loss last night would have really bothered me simply because the Terps didn’t attack the 1-3-1 Trap correctly. The high post was often left open or the middle man stood next to or underneath the post defender of the 3 across. The guards also often did know how to draw the trap, reverse the ball and use the aggressiveness of the zone against them.
"Have a good time...all the time." - Viv Savage
No Point Guard
Lack of a point guard with ball handling/passing skills is evident. Too many players on this team try to do things that they cannot do. IE: Faust’s insistance ondribbling thru double teams, Parker’s inability to bring the ball up the floor, Weis just has ZERO hands and is a total liability on offense. Time and talent will solve these problems. But last night showed just how vulnerable this team is.
by floridasteeler on Feb 8, 2012 8:37 AM EST up reply actions
9 of 11 from the field
Stoglin had a great game
Then defenders would try to 'establish' themselves out of bounds
and try to touch the ball first. It was a boneheaded play by Mosley.
Last Pass
IF Mosely caught the ball ‘out of bounds’ the he and the ball are out of bounds. Therefore, it should have been MD ball.
Poor defense let Clemson back in the game
The D slacked off after they got the 14 pt lead. I actually felt better with the lead hovering around 9. Once it got to 14, the comback was inevitable. Defense began relaxed and failed to extend out to the 3 point line. Next thing you know, Young and Jennings are taking warm-up style 3 pointers and its a game again
So did missed FTs
Stogs missed 1, Len missed 1, SS missed one and Pe’ missed the front end of 2 1 and 1s. That’s potentially 7 points given up at the line. I’m not saying everyone’s going to make every FT but the game plays very differently if they make even some of those.
Pe and transition
I think Ben is right on about Pe. Terps, if they are gonna get better, absolutely must find a guy who can really play at that position. I hope that’s Pe, because we really do not have another option. But, right now, we’re losing the battle at the point.
Examples are clear- (1) continually picking up your dribble against pressure—against Clemson’s good 1/3/1 that weakness was particularly glaring
(2) failure to recognize when to take the ball to the hole. Particularly in transition, Pe seems unable/unwilling.
Pe has the skills to improve. And he HAS to. I’d recommend watching game film of Kendall Marshall over and over. UNC, multi-talented. But until they found KM, couldn’t get it done.
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