On Randy Edsall, Danny O'Brien, Vanderbilt, and the Media
by Ben Broman on Feb 20, 2012 5:25 PM EST
in Football
Email
PrintI don't really like Randy Edsall. Why should I? He just finished a 2-10 season at Maryland. I'm a Maryland fan. A + B = I don't really like Randy Edsall.
In fact, I was one of many who was campaigning for major coaching staff changes in the off season, ideally at head coach. That being somewhere between "impractical" and "impossible", I was forced to settle for both coordinators and bide my time until the Edsall buyout became feasible, or pray that the new coordinators were competent enough to save the momentum of the program. (That may very well be happening. In fact, in full disclosure, he's starting to win me over. But it's a topic for another day.)
But here I am, forced to defend Edsall in the face of new attacks from national media types. It isn't that Edsall isn't fair game - remember, I was behind John Feinstein in his bazooka earlier in the year, largely because it was ahead of the curve, provided definitive reasoning, and had context. Should everyone have agreed with it? No. But it made sense. The new articles possess none of those redeeming qualities.
The new pieces are coming largely in response to Edsall blocking Danny O'Brien's potential transfer to Vanderbilt. O'Brien is still free to transfer from Maryland - it's not quite a Todd O'Brien situation yet - but not to Vanderbilt, any ACC schools, or Maryland's future opponents.
Bit of a jerk move? Yeah. But college football is a jerk industry. It's nothing new, as sad as it may be.
The response from national media types? Bloodlust.
Pundits, even those not involved in college football, sounded off on Twitter. Then came Sally Jenkins' piece in the Washington Post, written sarcastically from Edsall's point of view, critiquing Edsall on character matters. And now it's Gregg Doyle, one of the least liked sportswriters in Maryland athletics history, getting in on the act.
The main line of attack: Edsall is a petty, self-righteous, phony, hypocritical jerk.
My response: ...So?
Randy Edsall is not the first college football coach who seems like a jerk. Nor will he be the last. He won't be the first jerk to have failed at this level. And he won't be the first to have succeeded (at UConn, at least).
Let's get something clear: the vast majority - probably 99% or so - of college football coaches are jerks, seem like jerks, or can be made to seem like jerks. Urban Meyer? Check. Les Miles? Check. Nick Saban? Check. I could go on.*
College football is a business. It's about two things: A) money, and B) wins and losses. The players? The process? That's all nice sentiment, but unless it affects A) or B), it'll get ignored. It's why fanbases venerate a snake like Meyer but eviscerate a disciplinarian (albeit an apparently pompous and self-righteous one) like Edsall.
In this example, the former won and the latter lost. That's all there is to it. And that's all that matters.
The problem with Edsall isn't that he appears to be a pompous jerk. It's that he loses football games. Even if he was the nicest, classiest guy in the world, people would be calling for his head after a 2-10 year. And if he went 10-2, Maryland fans would give him essentially free reign to do whatever.
So, Ms. Jenkins and Mr. Doyel, save me the complaints about Edsall being pompous, self-righteous, and phony. It doesn't matter. I don't care. And odds are that if he went 8-4 last year, you wouldn't either. (Which, if'n you ask me, makes you a bit pompous, self-righteous, and phony.)
Make no mistake, I'm not defending Edsall's record. You want to hate on Edsall, then hate on Edsall - I do it a ton - but hate on the right things. Hate on the record. Hate on the transfers. Hate on the attendance. Don't hate on the guy. I might even say that his personality is his strongest point (setting a rather low bar, I know) but it really doesn't matter. It's all irrelevant.
I'm not saying personality is immaterial to results. Insofar as it relates to selling tickets (will people hate him so much that they won't buy tickets no matter what? Doubtful, if Maryland can win) or winning games (will he run players off with his personality? Much more likely, but it needs to be sustained to be a long-term problem), it's as critical as every other part of his coaching arsenal. Outside of that? I really don't care.
In Edsall's case, personality very well may almost certainly will affect games going forward. Perhaps it already has. But then point to the games lost. Look at the results, the evidence. If Edsall can't win, it isn't because he's phony.** Far more abrasive personalities than Edsall have won at this level. It's because he isn't a good coach.
I get it. Journalists like to write, throw bombs, and seem ahead of the curve, especially if it lets them be condescending. And the rules surrounding assholery at this level have always been clear: win and do whatever, or lose and have the world hate you. It's sports culture. Look at reactions from their respective fanbases to the situations of Mike Leach, or even Joe Paterno, compared to, say Larry Eustachy. I'm swimming against a current of angry typewriters, I know, but I couldn't be any more annoyed by it all at this point. It's worth the vent.
Perhaps I could stand all this if the writers were at least right about what they're nattering on about. Of course, they aren't. See, Jenkins and Doyel (and many others) are painting this as a situation where Edsall is blocking O'Brien from Vanderbilt just to be a jerk. Doyel even goes so far as to say that there "[aren't] a whiff a tampering allegations."
That makes for a much nicer story, but it's not true. Maryland actually used that as the reason for denying the transfer in the first place. And James Franklin, while "denying" Maryland's allegations of tampering, admitted "having relationships" with the transferring players, including O'Brien. I don't know about you, but to me that sounds like they've been in consistent contact. And if an opposing coach had been in contact with a transferring player before said player received his release, well ... it kinda sounds like tampering.***
O'Brien will have other options. Edsall hasn't ended his career. But he's not going to hand him over to James Franklin, especially now that Franklin has made his way into recruiting Maryland's backyard. Vanderbilt, in many ways, is as large a competitor for Maryland as schools like Duke and Georgia Tech, and certainly more so than a school like Syracuse. He may've only landed one Maryland-area recruit, but that doesn't mean he didn't fight Maryland tooth-and-nail for several, and it certainly doesn't mean he won't be back.
For the record, I'm not saying that coaches should be able to block certain transfers. In many cases, this one being an example, it seems silly. Blowing up the NCAA on awful and hypocritical transfer rules is one thing, and I encourage media members or fans who are upset with this turn of events to do it. But Edsall isn't a creator of the atmosphere as much as he is a product of it. Don't hate the player, hate the game.
One more time: I don't like Randy Edsall - as a coach, not as a person. (I've never met him, after all.) I'm not saying you have to like him, or not like him, or respect him. I'm not saying sportswriters can't write another thousand stories about Edsall being a pompous hypocrite. I'm just not sure why it'd matter.
For the tl;dr folks: Personality is irrelevant. Record isn't.
*And lest you think I'm only mentioning good coaches, no, awful coaches are jerks too.
**Why in Juan's name did we start using the word "phony" again? I've seen it like 12 times in the past two months. If only I knew that Holden Caufield grew up to be every major sportswriter.
***As for why Maryland wouldn't take it to a higher level: it's very difficult to prove that. Very. It isn't likely that they're going to find a smoking gun. Unless they tapped O'Brien's cellphone - admittedly, if any coach was going to do that, it'd be Edsall - they can't definitively prove that Franklin told O'Brien to transfer, or told him that there'd be a spot at Vandy for him if he did. So why would Maryland, which is cash-strapped beyond belief, take a ridiculously rich private institution to the NCAA's Kangaroo Court just to block a transfer, when they can do the same without an ounce of effort? It'd be an NCAA investigation, meaning it wouldn't take Maryland any money or effort. Still, it'd be nearly impossible to prove, so they might as well take the sure-fire approach: blocking the transfer outright, since that's their goal to begin with.
104 comments
|
3 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Randy Edsall is the MD Coach. I am a MD fan.
I support Randy Edsall. He wants the program to succeed probably more than anybody else.
A + B = C
Pretty pessimistic, unsupportive opening to the article, don’t you think?
@kckb8 ... #getatme
Had to get my hater bona fidas in early, before people filleted me as having Terp-colored glasses
Truth be told, I don’t really like him. But people need to stop drawing false choices between “like” and “support.” I dislike him. I “support” him in the sense that I hope he’s successful, because that means Maryland is successful. Not mutually exclusive.
by Ben Broman on Feb 20, 2012 5:37 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
I obviously appreciate that distinction, Ben, and I know that you "support" him.
But starting off an article saying you don’t like our head coach doesn’t exactly shed this blog in a positive light, and it certainly doesn’t make you appear any more objective.
Who cares if you wear Terp-colored glasses on a Terps blog?
If you truly support him, saying you “don’t like him” is counter-productive and a little paradoxical. And quite honestly, the “I don’t like Randy Edsall” thing is getting cliche.
We know a lot of people don’t like him, but enough with saying it over and over again. Just try to be a little more objective with your reporting next time, please. Especially at the outset of the article.
@kckb8 ... #getatme
Trust me. People care.
People care if I’m a hater. People care if I’m someone who can’t see any fault in Maryland. If I make a point painting Edsall in a positive light, but Person X perceives me as someone who would never say a bad thing about thing about Maryland, then they tell me that my point is invalid because of that. Inverse is true, as well: if I’m negative about Maryland but someone thinks I’m incessantly negative, then they won’t listen to what I have to say. I’m insulating myself from the easiest of counterpoints.
Anyway, this is an opinion piece, so by definition it’s subjective. If it was objective – only presenting that which we know to be factually true – it’d be a really boring opinion piece.
by Ben Broman on Feb 20, 2012 6:06 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You could make the same case that Doyel's was an opinion piece...
And that it would have been “really boring” without the incessant bashing. It’s what has made him a successful editorialist, and he sticks with it. Kudos to him for that.
Regardless, he does seem to bash the Terps a lot. But with this piece, he said plenty of things about Edsall that many of us would tend to agree with.
My point is that you claim that you “don’t like Edsall” because he went 2-10. But the fact that he is a “petty, self-righteous, phony, hypocritical jerk” is of little matter to you?
Fact is, he probably isn’t any worse than Les Miles and the bunch. The difference is that those guys win, and he hasn’t (yet). But when he does end up winning, you and most others will probably forget how much you “didn’t like him” from the outset.
I just don’t appreciate that in a piece where you are supposedly defending our head coach, you start out by giving him a personal slap to the face. Just feel like the opinion piece would have been better off without that rough start.
Otherwise, its brilliant work, as always.
@kckb8 ... #getatme
Doyel's WAS an opinion piece
And it was subjective – it was entirely and wholly his opinion, which he has every right to give. I disagree with it. Hence, I wrote this other opinion piece, which is also subjective and entirely my opinion.
Re: Edsall: pretty much. If he wins, I’ll overlook a lot of things that I don’t like about him now. And I realize that because he went 2-10, I’m getting nitpicky. (Names on jerseys, etc.) So’s most of the fanbase, and that’s part of the reason I wrote this.
You actually just used my point: Edsall doesn’t win, Meyer + Saban + Miles do, and that’s really the only difference between them. That’s why people are using all of these rationalizations for why they don’t like him (names on jerseys, DOB, etc.) and it’s why he’s an easy target for national media. You’re saying that I’ll end up forgetting how much I didn’t like him if he starts winning – you’re right! I’m saying that the only reason I don’t like Edsall is because he isn’t winning, not because of his personality.
by Ben Broman on Feb 20, 2012 7:23 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't think that's a reason to dislike him...yet.
One season.
Not his players.
Overly optimistic expectations.
Growing pains.
etc. etc. etc.
My point is him not winning should NOT be a reason to “not like him.” There are a million factors, other than his coaching abilities, that have led to the 2-10 record. I would prefer that everyone withhold judgment rather than declare their dislike for him so soon.
There is excitement around the program now…Kudos to Edsall for making that happen.
@kckb8 ... #getatme
Eh, I'm not locked into the viewpoint
People are constantly being judged in today’s society, it’s really tough to “withhold judgment” on anyone for more than a year.
I actually think we’re closer than farther apart, because I think a year is too short of time to make a move away from him at head coach. (For about a week after the NC State game my hatred had blinded me, and that’s what the sentence in the post is in reference to, but otherwise I’ve been saying he deserves another year if not two.) I just think that, in the meantime, it’s rational to be unhappy with the program after a 2-10 year with two dozen transfers, and he’s the head of the program, so I connect the dots. I do think he can turn it around and intend to give him time to do it.
That's a fair opinion.
I’m just of the thought that a college coach needs a couple years before he can be truly evaluated.
Whenever there is a culture change like what occurred from Friedgen to Edsall, there will be a lot of defection and the program will start with a clean slate.
I think that clean slate is this coming season, because he has his players and his culture, and the guys that actually want to be there are the ones playing and performing.
@kckb8 ... #getatme
The main reason I think people dislike him is his attitude...even if they were winning I wouldn't like the guy.
Would he be much more tolerable? Absolutely, because you could say, “hey, he’s an asshole, but at least his methods work.” Instead it looks like he is more focused on the players submitting to his method rather than focused on getting them to play winning football.
I understand
what you are saying about his personality…it really doesnt matter unless it afftects his ability to win and that is why I think many people drag his personality into the discussion….I believe it affects the team, their psyche and has largely been what drove many of the 24 players from his program which ultimately culminated in a 2-10 season (yes, I know some of the players transferred after the season) …
pretty much saying
you can get away with it if you win. he doesn’t so isn’t criticism warranted…e.g. “do it the right way/my way…by the way it doesn’t guarantee victories”
@ChilledOnTheRox
by Meraj Chowdhury on Feb 20, 2012 7:36 PM EST up reply actions
Only in areas relating to W/Ls; other stuff, it's a little hypocritical
Whether or not he releases DOB to Vandy is immaterial to what happened last year, right? No connection. (Not DOB transferring, but in particular releasing him to Vandy.) Obviously it didn’t cause the record.
If we went 10-2 last year, people wouldn’t care about not letting Vandy have him. We went 2-10, so all of a sudden this completely unrelated thing is a big deal.
So isn’t it a little hypocritical to be up in arms about something at 2-10 that we wouldn’t care about at 10-2, that has no impact on the record? I think so.
It is also possible
that if we went 10-2 with DOB, that DOB would not be transferring
or that if we went 10-2 with CJB, that Edsall would allow DOB to go to Vandy…
But we will never know
Really?
People really liked Edsall after he beat Miami. We’re not so different from any other fanbase, and if you look at other fanbases, they let their winners do just about anything they want. When Edsall was winning here, for about two weeks, people were really on-board with him.
So you’re saying the fanbase would be angrier with Edsall if he won? Or did I misread it?
In your role...
you do a good job of trying to tap into the psyche of the irresponsible nationwide writers. Years ago, national writers wouldn’t even attempt to report about certain teams unless there was a truly compelling human interest story where they could write a lengthy piece.
in the end, when your team goes 2-10 you’re an easy target. If you’re a two time national champion coach like Saban or Meyer, you get a much longer rope.
Bottom line as you said Ben – win…or else…
"A new era has dawned in Maryland Athletics..."
by bball purist on Feb 20, 2012 7:09 PM EST up reply actions
I think it was very objective
Ben touches on this in his comment, but:
He first gives full disclosure as to his thoughts on Edsall to eliminate the idea that his subjective bias clouded his objectivity.
The rest of the article is “objective.” We know it is “objective” because we know it runs counter to his thoughts on Edsall—thus, his position on the transfer issue is truly his thoughts on the transfer issue—his position on Edsall did not cloud his judgment.
I put “objective” in quotes, because the whole article is an opinion. Ben isn’t breaking news about the transfer situation. He isn’t giving much in the way of facts, or fact-based analysis. He is giving a personal critique of articles written by certain sportswriters. By nature, that isn’t “objective” in the true sense of the word.
+1
solid Ben. It’s dead on. I’ve heard at least 10 morons starting to argue the 2A policy and make it out to be RE’s fault – complete idiocy. some of these discussions have degraded into talks that the players don’t get “enough” w/ a scholly and room and board – huh? I’m listening (b4 switching channels/statons) and thinking “wtf does this have to do w/ blocking a competitor (in recruiting, as you accurately stated Ben)?”
Sound reasoning from these national “writers” does not exist over 1/2 the time, maybe even 90% of the time.
"A new era has dawned in Maryland Athletics..."
by bball purist on Feb 20, 2012 5:59 PM EST up reply actions
On another note....
You are spot on with bashing Doyel, and I support the rest of the arguments you make.
Great work, as always. Just really not a fan of the “I don’t like our head coach” after one season of work.
@kckb8 ... #getatme
by kckb8 on Feb 20, 2012 6:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I guess the way you told...
Sally Jenkins to sftu was better than the way I told her to stfu. LOL
Children should be seen and not heard.
by CharlesDriesell on Feb 20, 2012 6:41 PM EST up reply actions
Greg Doyl wrote a terrible article??
I’m…..I’m shocked
If Edsall REALLY thinks Vandy tampered . . .
he just has to make the accusation – the NCAA would then compel Franklin (and DOB) to dump their cell records, etc. It wouldn’t cost UMD a dime (or a moment), they’re not suing anyone, just making an accusation which the NCAA is duty bound to investigate.
The unfortunate truth here is that obviously DOB had a good relationship with Franklin. Wouldn’t DOB WANT to go where he already knows the coach and system? Vandy doesn’t have to cheat to get him. RE certainly realizes this (or should) and THAT’s why he’s sticking to slime-ing JF rather than simply filing an accusation.
Evidently every writer who gets within a radius of Edsall has the same response . . . that’s not entirely “business as usual” – personality DOES matter, unfortunately.
It doesn't matter if Vandy "had to cheat" to get him, it would matter if they tampered
If JF was talking to DOB and said “if you want to transfer, you know there’s a home for you at Vanderbilt” – or something along those lines – that’s tampering. He didn’t need to say it, but that doesn’t mean he didn’t.
I haven’t gotten my eyes on a copy of the NCAA’s tampering rules, probably because they don’t provide them, but I’d be surprised if all it’d take would be Maryland making the accusation, with no evidence. That said, you’re right, it’s an NCAA investigation, which does alter my point slightly. I’ll fix that in my post. Still, the odds of that ever being proven are rather low (JF and DOB can talk about things unrelated to transfer status, for example) and the only sure-fire way of Maryland preventing that would be the (legal) method the NCAA has given them: blocking the transfer.
And I still don’t get the logic behind why Edsall would block Vandy. “DOB wanting to go to Vandy” just doesn’t work for me.
actually the NCAA does provide its rules
http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/D112.pdf
the key points are . . .
1. “ethical conduct” – fairness, honesty, apple pie . . . tampering is generally considered an ethics violation.
2. 13.1.1.3 Four-Year College Prospective Student-Athletes is on p. 83.
“An athletics staff member or other representative of the institution’s athletics interests shall not make contact with the student-athlete of another NCAA or NAIA four-year collegiate institution, directly or indirectly, without first obtaining the written permission of the first institution’s athletics director (or an athletics administrator designated by the athletics director) to do so, regardless of who makes the initial contact.”
Not vague, no wiggle room. If UMD really thinks Vandy did this, they can complain and NCAA would investigate, the NCAA does not require “proof” to open an investigation and they can compel JF/DOB/family/etc. to dump their cell records to “prove” their innocence . . . Kind of shady to accuse guys of cheating in public and then back away from asking for an investigation that would prove you’re right or wrong . . .
I have to admit
that I really like Randy Edsall.. Except the PR side of him. Having worked in the recruiting office under Fridge & Edsall and now on the medical staff, I like what he’s doing. He’s a very nice guy.. Fridge only spoke to me about once for the year I was there. Edsall speaks with everyone. The players that are still here like him a lot. They like what he’s trying to do. The one’s that are leaving are leaving because they don’t like rules, simple. This team will be good again.
Now on an article note: I like the article Ben, great write-up. I have my doubts about Edsall too. But what I’m seeing happening everyday now gives me reason for hope. I believe we’re heading in the write the direction. + having coordinators that know what they’re doing is a plus.
by Timothy Bowen on Feb 20, 2012 5:46 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
so you know edsall as a person?..
more in depth, im very curious what is he like??
Very, very nice person
RE will be fine. Get rid of the showboats and those lacking any rules in their lives and discipline will equal everyone having each other’s backs. that’s my .02.
by Terps84 on Feb 20, 2012 7:41 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Yeah.
He’s a very nice guy. Everything you hear in the media is a little stretched out. Yes he’s very into rules and structure but he is very chill when it comes to talking to him and holding convo’s w/ his players. He doesn’t mean no harm. He just believes that there’s more than football and that he must make you into the proper person for life after school. Everyone forgets that its a coaches job to mold young boys into men. Just harder for some because some players don’t want to go through it.
by Timothy Bowen on Feb 20, 2012 8:51 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks for the insite on Edsall
Glad to hear that he is a nice person for once. Even better to hear though that the players that stayed support him and buy into what he is saying. You confirm what we all thought all along: the players leaving just have a problem with rules, it isn’t Edsall running them off, it is there own maturity levels.
Oh man
You’re really going to piss people off here – telling them that Edsal is a nice guy. They don’t want to hear that. They’ve already made up their mind that he’s an obnoxious a-hole. I’m just glad that Stefon Diggs didn’t agree with that assessment.
Thank you, Ben
Absolutely on the money, concise and extremely necessary.
The non-stop criticism of Edsall has been absolutely out of control and, frankly, unfounded since the season ended. Articles like those by Jenkins have been burying our program underneath excess disdain and doing untold damage to the reputation of the university and the athletics department, which has been struggling enough as it is.
As an intern at The Sun Sports last spring, I DID meet Randy Edsall and even interviewed him a few times. I can’t imagine anyone arguing straight up that he is a bad person. He is not a snake. He is tough, a bit of an asshole, and can certainly rub someone the wrong way — but he is not a malicious person. Acting as if he has the worst in his heart when DOB transfers is not only simplistic, it is LAZY journalism.
Gregg Doyel, for whatever reason, seems to have it out for our University (see Williams, Gary) and a few others. But for better or worse, his voice is not heard by all that many. (Certainly for better.)
But the tenured, senior columnist at the national newspaper in our backyard should have some context and do some actual reporting. Sally Jenkins should be ashamed of herself. I wonder if she’s even heard of Stefon Diggs, or taken into account the fact that Randy Edsall and staff did some of the best recruiting the football program has ever seen in the last decade (or more), or that he has been much more forthright in the offseason than he was all season. Where’s the column about the unprecedented success recruiting? By anyone at the Post?
Randy Edsall had a bad season. As you may recall, Ralph Freidgen had an equally terrible season, with many of the same players. In fact, Fridge left Edsall with the program in disarray — academic problems, fewer scholarships, and players who got preferential treatment in the locker room (for sure). And Ralph Freidgen was much kinder to the reporters and journalists who covered the university — he allowed them more access and more personality than Edsall did. Edsall got off on the wrong foot with the media, especially when the losses started, and boy, has that hurt him. That cannot be discounted in his PR nightmare.
As Maryland fans, we have to stick up for him at least a little. It’s too bad DOB has to head out the way he does, but James Franklin and him are more than just acquaintances. If anyone REALLY thinks the phrase “We sure could use you at Vanderbilt” was not uttered more than a dozen times in the last year, they are out of their minds. Edsall did the right thing here, and he did what he’s entitled to do, and it barely qualifies as self-interested, let alone malicious.
Sorry this is so long, but this has really been pissing me off. On this board, on IMS and across the country it is way too popular to pile it on Edsall. To me this is the point where we all take him for what he is and realize that he was a big hire and that he had a hell of a recruiting cycle, even with terrible results to stand on. We are all Terps and it’s time for us to stand up for ourselves.
by mmford10 on Feb 20, 2012 5:47 PM EST reply actions 10 recs
“Unless they tapped O’Brien’s cellphone – admittedly, if any coach was going to do that, it’d be Edsall – they can’t definitively prove that Franklin told O’Brien to transfer, or told him that there’d be a spot at Vandy for him if he did.”
I heard JF was given some low cost prepaid cell phones before he left…. he he he – “I want some of that pepper steak…”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXv-1CMcUu4
"A new era has dawned in Maryland Athletics..."
F*ck Marlo -
Avon never snitched.
Word.
Are you there Gary? It's me NYC Terp 05
by NYC Terp 05 on Feb 20, 2012 11:12 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Being a Jerk
The thing is, if you are a winner, you can afford to be a jerk and people will give you a pass…..However, being a loser and a jerk is rarely a good combination…..
Edsall is what his record says he is…..if he wants to continue to behave like a jerk, he shouldnt complain about the consequences
by TerpfanMA on Feb 20, 2012 5:57 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
100% Right
A very pragmatic article … without all the fluff and ego driven and self richeneous rhetoric of others.
Doyel's article
I like the part at the end that he basically says “I know I defended another coach for doing the exact same thing, but I like that guy, and not Edsall.”
by The Burning Scheyer Jersey on Feb 20, 2012 6:28 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
ugh hit enter by mistake
I love the article.
I dislike him as a coach, but I am of the mindset of many other fans. We’re stuck with him, so rather than focus on the negative points, we need to focus on the positive, give him a chance with his players, and see the results. If it is this terrible in 3 years when we can afford the buyout, then get rid of him. But until then, give him a chance, not one year with players that he didn’t recruit and that don’t buy into his system in the first place.
I agree
People have no right to attack a man’s character without knowing him. Everybody ostracizes the guy for leaving UConn after the Fiesta Bowl, as if he’s the only guy to do it. What about Bobby Petrino and the Falcons? Or Rich Rod and WVU? We expected too much as a fan base from Edsall in my opinion. That 9-4 team had legit NFL talent on it in guys like Torrey Smith, LaQuan Williams, Da’rel Scott etc. This isn’t the NFL, coaching changes do not spark immediate change, those are professional players. These are student athletes. There’s a HUGE difference. Let the man bring in his own players, emphasize his own system, and hold his own players accountable in his own way. None of us knows what went down behind closed doors, and its easy to label the head of the program responsible (and in many cases, that’s warranted). But as a terps fan, and considering this is all we have at the moment, we should wait and see the man perform with players who who came into the program to play for him rather than blaming him for the disgruntled attitudes of players left over from a pretty lax regime .
Both the coached you cited
are gigantic assholes (or atleast they are portrayed that way by the media). I do agree with the main point here though. Hate him because he sucks at coaching football not because he’s a jerk.
I don’t get all the Edsall bashing on this DOB transfer. DOB wants to transfer, Edsall puts some conditions on it, DOB agrees to the conditions, end of story. Has Danny even said he wanted to go to Vandy?
As to why Edsall whoul block a transfer to Vandy, isn’t Maryland’s roster full of guys recruited originally by Franklin? Should he now be able to pick the ones that worked out?
There is some serious lack of perspective to this story. Is this situation unique to Edsall or is it standard when there is a coach change?
There was a story ran on ESPN Rumors the other day...
that DOB was contemplating appealing the Vandy block. However, I don’t think that would be in his best decision, because then Edsall would more than likely bring to light the JF quotes that he was in touch with DOB throughout the year, etc. which would then put Vandy in the hot seat.
Danny's First Impression of Edsall..
On day one, he walked and said, “how many of you have been to a BCS bowl game?” no one but edsall raised his hand. “Now, how many of you have been conference champions?” Edsall is the only one to raise his hand. “That’s what I thought.”
Pretentious
Were you there?
Not sure that fits “pretentious”. Sounds kinda motivational to me.
Well...
had you been to a BCS bowl? Had you won a conference championship? Is that you David MacKall? How’s it going at McDonalds?
Children should be seen and not heard.
by CharlesDriesell on Feb 20, 2012 7:10 PM EST up reply actions
with an 8-5 record
and only 1 victory over a top 25 team in a poor Big East (in a bad year)…yeah, quite an accomplish?
@ChilledOnTheRox
by Meraj Chowdhury on Feb 20, 2012 7:13 PM EST up reply actions
Better than...
any success any player on our roster had…
Children should be seen and not heard.
by CharlesDriesell on Feb 20, 2012 7:20 PM EST up reply actions
are you seriously
comparing kids who can only play for 4 yrs vs. a coach who coached for 12-13 yrs?
@ChilledOnTheRox
by Meraj Chowdhury on Feb 20, 2012 7:25 PM EST up reply actions
Are you seriously complaining...
because Coach Edsall was using it in a motivational speech? Every coach on the planet has at some time said, I’ve done this. This works.
In fact, if you watch the video of Coach Turgeon teaching our basketball players, he says something similar. Get off of it hater.
Children should be seen and not heard.
by CharlesDriesell on Feb 20, 2012 7:53 PM EST up reply actions
what are you talking about???
@ChilledOnTheRox
by Meraj Chowdhury on Feb 20, 2012 7:57 PM EST up reply actions
all i said is edsall sucked last year
no reference to any motivational speeches…
@ChilledOnTheRox
by Meraj Chowdhury on Feb 20, 2012 7:58 PM EST up reply actions
also..the term hater
is usually reserved on people who are jealous of success…
…edsall hasn’t had any at maryland, and not much in UConn…
as they say, “nothing to hate on”
@ChilledOnTheRox
by Meraj Chowdhury on Feb 20, 2012 8:00 PM EST up reply actions
absolutely nothing wrong with saying that to his players
sometimes players feel like they dont need or dont have to listen to their coaches… saying this wakes the right players up… and the ones that it doesn’t? their obviously delusional about how great they are because of all the people in their lives saying that their whole lives if theyve made it to this level.
I would, but I seemed to have misplaced my pants... Follow @mtgassr
by NattyBoAndOldBay on Feb 20, 2012 11:01 PM EST up reply actions
Did he follow it up by saying
“See that watch? That watch costs more than you car. I made $970,000 last year. How much you make? You see pal, that’s who I am, and you’re nothing.”
Really, UConn and Maryland had Identical records playing nearly identical schedules in 2010, and only politics put UConn in the BCS and Maryland in the military bowl, and there were no players in the locker rom that didn’t know that.
Starting off with self important bulshit is not “motivation”
by UtzTheCrabChip on Feb 21, 2012 12:12 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Good post Ben
However, I thought the Feinstein article was a collection of poorly supported arguments as well.
And from a dookee no less...
I thought it was irresponsible.
Oh, and by the way, wasn’t that a rap on Ralph Friedgen as well? That he was arrogant and self absorbed? I recall hearing a recruit who committed to West Virginia said something like that. I’d rather the media hate Randy, and the recruits like him than the other way around.
Children should be seen and not heard.
by CharlesDriesell on Feb 20, 2012 6:47 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The Feinstein article was polarizing, no doubt, but it was at least relevant
He talked about the record, the deficit the athletic department was running, and drew the problems with Edsall’s personality into potential issues with selling tickets. They might be wrong, but they’re relevant.
These other pieces really don’t matter, as I see it..
And he also called for...
Edsall to be fired RIGHT NOW. Despite the simple fact that it was IMPOSSIBLE.
I will never read another thing Feinstein writes.
Children should be seen and not heard.
by CharlesDriesell on Feb 20, 2012 7:58 PM EST up reply actions
His arguments were relevant but they didn't come close to making a case for firing Randy
If I recall correctly he even implied that Randy was at odds with the culture at UMD. I thought it was a rush to judgement by someone with the experience to know that there is more to Randy than what we saw in that first season. The timing for the posting was terrible too. It was at an emotional low point for Terp fans. Instead of reasoned judgement, it came across to me as something written to ride that emotional wave. It was so out of character for him, I wondered if he would be embarrased by it in retrospective moments.
Just one correction I'd make:
Gregg Doyle, one of the least liked sportswriters in American athletics history…
Seriously, that guy has no room to accuse anyone of being a “a petty, self-righteous, phony, hypocritical jerk.” I stopped reading sportsline so I wouldn’t accidentally give him page hits. Why would I read sensationalism when I can get intelligent commentary at the DC SBN blogs?
And if Sally Jenkins doesn’t like people for those same reasons, why is she so busy hanging out with Lance Armstrong?
I think he was protecting DOB
Look, everyone knows that if DOB ended up at Vandy, there would likely be an investigation. If DOB appeals and wins, there still may be. I believe that RE just wanted to protect Danny from any mess like that. That’s my opinion, but you can believe pundits over common sense if you want.
I don’t see this jerk that you all see. I think the media is portraying him that way and you let it affect your opinion of him…propaganda…hey let’s all go attack Iraq. I had friends who said that in 2003 and now they feel kind of dumb about it. Why is it that the recruits LOVE him and you all don’t even LIKE him. Maybe it is because they have actually met him and you haven’t.
Either way, we will win and suddenly you will LOVE him and will feel silly for ever believing otherwise.
by meryl_and_tara_penn on Feb 20, 2012 7:11 PM EST reply actions
This strikes me as wrong
Many of us that question Edsall’s coaching ability do so with well-thought out arguments, stats, counterpoints, etc.
I don’t think he has proven himself to be anything more than a “fine” coach. I can argue that with the best of them. If he somehow outperforms his past, well, you don’t feel “silly.” You feel grateful that the unexpected happened, as it sometimes does.
As for his personality—he strikes me as a bit of a douche. But I’m on board with Ben here—I really don’t care. I bring up certain “personality” things from time to time (well, I used to—the new coordinators make things rosier in my Terps football world), but mainly because those things seemed to impact winning: friction in the locker room, talent drain, negative impact on recruiting, etc.
If the personality traits don’t prevent us from winning, more power to him.
In short: my views on personality like won’t change—because “I don’t care” is hard to alter. My views on his coaching ability might change—but that doesn’t mean I have to feel silly for currently questioning his coaching ability based on the evidence we have in front of us.
And by the way...
…blocking Vanderbilt is not a reason to call Randy Edsall all the crap they are calling him. I don’t buy most of this crap. They are just playing to the masses, who evidently think it’s popular to hate Randy Edsall.
Meanwhile, many a recruits mother LOVES Randy Edsall.
So, I guess we have conflicting reports as to whether we should like Edsall or not. Me, I choose to side with recruits mothers.
Children should be seen and not heard.
by CharlesDriesell on Feb 20, 2012 7:12 PM EST reply actions
Personally
I no longer give a crap where DOB goes. We’ll probably not hear from him again. And I side with the recruits mothers too.
If ones loses...
…any decision one makes can come into question….because…well…your team just went 2-10. I thought blocking Danny to Vanderbilt was pretty standard but RE has to be ready to take criticism because he is a very unlikeable character AND HE LOSES…
Now you add to that Danny having a classy response vs Edsall’s response being douchey
+
12 transfers (including losing the 2 most important positions on a football roster, LT & QB)
+
expectations of a poor year next year (losing most of your line + change of scheme on D)
=
criticism warranted
@ChilledOnTheRox
by Meraj Chowdhury on Feb 20, 2012 7:28 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Edsall's response being douchey?
Wasn’t he quoting what DOB told him, same with Garcia?
he was quoting
him being not all in? etc.. making him looking like quitter?
@ChilledOnTheRox
by Meraj Chowdhury on Feb 20, 2012 7:32 PM EST up reply actions
I had interpreted it
as Danny telling Edsall that he wasn’t “all in” for fall practice (wasn’t 100% sure he’d stay through next year) and thus didn’t want to start spring ball. Edsall then relayed that, albeit ineloquently.
I understand why criticism is coming, and character stuff isn’t off the table, but let’s not act like that’s the reason people are upset with Edsall.
Well again...
Edsall’s issue…it could be interpreted many ways…I had it interpreted that Danny was just not committed to this program, he quit on us…yada yada…RE should hire PR personnel until he starts winning.
Well the reason I personally do not like him runs on many levels:
For one, he never got coaches that fit the personnel of the offense…spread vs pro style..If one wants immediate success, you coach to the talent you have
He forced many people to transfer including both starting tackles and the QB
we lost last year..a lot and badly…
recruiting issues until the recent hire of locksly
etc.
@ChilledOnTheRox
by Meraj Chowdhury on Feb 20, 2012 7:53 PM EST up reply actions
Derek Dooley
He blocked a kid from transferring closer to home because his mother was sick, didn’t hear a peep about it. But, a coach blocks a kid because HE suspects there MIGHT be tampering, get the pitchforks and torches. Like Ben said, you win some games, you can pull a Mike Locksley and people will like you plain and simple.
Sadly we are stuck with Edsall.
Two reasons: Money (lack thereof) and better assistants. I suspect our assistants will recruit well enough (Locksley) and coach well enough to keep Edsall around at least until his contract expires.
With our budget deficit of 40 something million hiring the right HC was critical.
Fear the Turgle!
What Ben posted
needed to be said. Recent articles in local media about Randy E have been brutal and perhaps over the top more than he deserved. Hard to defend Randy 2/10 and just too many players leaving to ignore something isn’t right. Maybe Crowton and Bradford were part of the problem but too many players left after they did so I think Randy still is the biggest problem. Still I agree with his decision to ban DOB from Vandy after Franklin stuck his nose in Maryland football business. A leopard can’t change his spot so any change in Randy’s management style is not expected. Maybe new coordinators can off set this guy. As Ben said if you are going to be a jerk you need to be successful. The jerk coaches he mentioned have won Natty’s. Randy talks a good game but this is the guy who called his Conn players on the phone to tell them he was leaving when he was all but already gone. Results is the bottom line and he was way short on the first 2 million dollars worth. The guy I am most up set with is Kevin Anderson. How could he hire Randy Edsall at 2 mill a year. On top of that he locked in a 10 year deal? Unforgivable blunder! Give credit for bringing in Locks, Stewart. So Randy and KA are trying to correct problems. The new recruiting class with Diggs was super good news. I want to see Terps football back where teams fear the turtle. I don’t want to beat on Randy he has taken enough well deserved heat. Just hope to Testudo he is listening. We will soon see. Go Terps!
Gregg Douchel
I’m still waiting for the dude to write that article outing Gary Williams as a tamperer in the NCSt hoops coach search. What a windbag. I remember sending him an opposing email and his reply was as Douchey as anything he has written. His schtick is old and useless.
edsall and turgeon
let me state clearly i’m not a fan of edsall’s and don’t think his heavy handed my way or the highway schtick needed to be done.as i’ve said previously , it is way too early to tell whether either coach will meet the expectations we as fans have for them.it would be kind of ironic if that after all the whining,pissing,and moaning edsall ends up being the more successful hire.
Rumors on radio
That the Kevin Anderson Georgetown thing was done mostly to deflect PR off of randy and the football programs PR collapse that’s been happening and get everyone talking about something else, whether they agree with our stance vs Georgetown or not
Oh Randy.
I love that piece defending him, while not really defending him, still requires 3 mitigating footnotes.
by Sephtical on Feb 20, 2012 10:44 PM EST via mobile reply actions
IM SO TIRED OF RANDY TALK
Im addicted to reading this site because I love maryland and listening to alot of the usual characters view points on all the stuff that comes up. BUT this is getting repetitive and more and more nonsensical. Is that a real word?… because if its not, my argument is now shot.
People are no longer providing good arguments to hate edsall. NO ONE LIKES COACHES THAT LOSE!… well duh. Everyone has just made this personal. Everyone likes DOB, nobody likes a coach that doesnt win (edsall). Shocker that something happens between them and suddenly Edsall is no longer just an incompetent coach but now the child of satan. Its all just association. Most of us dont know either of them. Danny came in and won = love. Edsall came in and lost = loathing. Danny leaves and because Edsall blocks him from going to specific schools (vandy… even more specifically), suddenly this isnt about football but that edsall is evil? Come on. Look at any school and see the provisions that transferring athletes are given. WHAT YOU’RE ALL SO upset about is that you feel wronged because edsall didnt give you an excuse for hurting the feelings of your beloved QB. But he doesnt have to and not giving it doesnt change anything.
Last point: NO MAN AS EVIL AND AS TERRIBLE AS MOST OF YOU PAINT HIM AS WOULD HAVE BEEN COACHING THIS LONG AND HAD THE POSITIONS HES HAD.
I was calling for Edsall’s head because he lost this season. Enough about transfers, enough kids obviously believe playing for him isnt going to be all that bad. And recruiting? seemed to be a pretty big win… considering the season he had and all the media and player’s reaction about him?… recruiting was F-IN HUGE! It hasnt mended all my wounds from this season but its a start.
Next step- He just needs to win. How long we give him or the people in maryland offices give him is yet to be seen, but remember, Edsall might not be the person that 20 years from now maryland fans gawk over for bringing home a national championship… but he might just be the person that we mention as the asshole we all hated but came to appreciate the 3-5 years he gave us and changed the outlook of our players and program. If you want continued success we need players that understand its a privilege and honor to be apart of our school… a real commitment, not just to themselves. Everyone is saying that we had a winning program before edsall…. no, we had a winning season. There’s a huge difference. I am currently in my first year coaching my high school hockey team that I started as a student 10 years ago. We have been the worst team in our league for 9 of those years. Last year they had their best season, going 10-10. I take over and realize their not a team at all.. there are 3 players out of 18 that care. I cut 4, 2 of the better players quit because I told them they had to make practices or they wouldnt play in games. We went 0-17-1 this year. Our tie was our last game of the season. The kids that are still with the team couldnt be more excited for next year because for the first time they know everyone that’s returning actually wants to be there. Sounds stupid but the shit I dealt with this year kinda made me feel for edsall. I had parents whispering behind my back saying I’m not a good coach, they won 10 games last year, players didnt want to play for me… sound familiar? And you know what, like I said about edsall, i may not be the savior of the program i love so much but i know for a fact that this program wont be anything but a random good season with some great pieces between nothingness until me or someone comes to be the bad guy and tell them what this is really supposed to be.
Wow sorry. This sort of got on as I was getting all emotional. Love you all. GO TERPS!
I would, but I seemed to have misplaced my pants... Follow @mtgassr
by NattyBoAndOldBay on Feb 20, 2012 11:39 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Appreciated greatly
PLAYOFFS today! Every team makes it so we have a shot at taking down the number 1 seed, who is definitely not taking this game against us serious.
I would, but I seemed to have misplaced my pants... Follow @mtgassr
by NattyBoAndOldBay on Feb 21, 2012 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
This man is a good guy
I don’t doubt that he’s probably a good father, and he wants his players to be good men. Criticize his coaching and the way he relays that, perhaps— but don’t slander his character.
Mark Richt of the uber-competitive SEC said this
“I think if a kid doesn’t want to be in your program, then I really don’t want him in the program. If he wants to go somewhere else where he thinks is in his best interests and his family thinks is in his best interests, I’m fine with that. I’m not going to say that there will never be a situation where I wouldn’t want to put some type of condition on a release. But in the last 11 years I haven’t found one yet where I felt I should.”
Mark Richt is a great guy who WINS….this can actually happen folks. Mark Richt has been in MANY BCS bowls. Even won some.
Maryland let basketball players transfer to James Madison with Lefty.
BTW, how many players/recruits asked UConn to transfer to Maryland when Edsall came here? Strangely…not a one.
Mark richt is just one guy
Just cause some coaches don’t do it doesn’t prove that it’s not common practice. Gene chizick blocked his running back from a school after Malzahn left. Can’t think of the kids name for some reason, but chizick is a pretty successful coach. Let’s talk about nick Saban and his exsessive gray shirting, could you imagine how those kids feel after he bashes their hopes and dreams of playing for a powerhouse, national title, etc.Hey he is a winner though and nobody is gonna dispute that.
P.S. Randy came out publicly and said he wouldnt recruit any players away from UCONN. Adrian Amos, a safety from Calvert Hall, tried to follow but Edsall didn’t take him.
One thing here not to forget; we lost a kid last year just before the signing date to Vanderbilt and Franklin. I like James Franklin and thought he would make a very good head coach but as for current players and recruits he initiated the ’all’s fair in love and war scenario" for players between the two schools.
My two cents (or more...probably).
I had no intention of responding to Ben’s post (which I enjoyed reading) but I figured what the hell; everyone else is doing it, why not join the crowd. So, here goes.
1. I don’t like Edsall, but he’s Maryland’s football coach…I’m a Maryland fan…case closed. Do I have my reasons for not liking him even though I’ve never met him? Yup. Is this a new fad or something? Nope. It’s called America. I have rights.
2. Let’s cut to the chase on why a majority of people don’t like him: he wasn’t the big hire WE as a fan base WANTED. Leach…Malzohn…Leach…Malzohn…it’s all we heard when Fridge was let go. College Park was abuzz; this message board was taking off; and then we learn Edsall became our coach, and a collective ‘What the fu**’ and ‘Who the fu**’ was released. His introductory press conference was blah…he puts his hat on and then takes it off (more blah)…we learn the details about his leaving UConn (even more blah)…and then his first year happens (many drunk blahs ensue). I’m sure Rockin’ Randy is a pretty cool guy; but he never had a chance as soon as he stepped foot on this campus. And IF we win 8 or more games this year and win a bowl game, guess who’s going to get the credit? That’s right…Locksley and the new Defensive Coordinator.
3. So some of these media people are hypocrites; who cares? How does that make them different from us? If Edsall had left UConn the same way for another school besides us, we’d bash the hell out of him. If Locksley had never been a ‘Terp before being hired here, we would have bashed the hell out of him for his track record (personal and coaching) and talked about how much of a black eye it gave the university for hiring someone like that. But why do many ’Terp fans love Locks? Oh yeah, he can RECRUIT. I guarantee, though, that if our offense stinks it up this year, we’ll be all over his ass about how sorry he is.
4. I get tired of hearing the following: ‘Wait until he gets his own players’. A good coach adjusts to what he’s been given, no matter how good/bad the talent is. Pasqualoni went 5-7 as Edsall’s replacement this year; so you mean the talent on his 8-5 returning squad (that made a BCS game) was better than our 9-4 returning squad? (Leave strength of schedule out of the equation, especially since the Big East champ demolished the ACC champ in the Orange Bowl). That’s a big reason I love Marky Mark; he took over a team that wasn’t any good; he wasn’t left anything (except Stogs); and he has YET to complain. He has done what all good coaches do; tackle the task head on and coach them the best he can.
Here is how Ben's next opinion piece is going to start.
I don’t really like Mark Turgeon. Why should I? He just lost by 27 to UVA and is 14-11 at Maryland. I’m a Maryland fan. A + B = I don’t really like Mark Turgeon.
Please don’t tell me that’s how you’re going to start the next article defending Mark!
(tongue firmly implanted in cheek.)
Ha
But it’s pretty easy to draw a distinction between Edsall (inherit good situation, do bad) and Turgeon (inherit bad situation, do okay).
Ben, honestly?
I like Mark but losing by 27 and just plain giving up is not “okay”. Seriously.
by Mighty MD on Feb 21, 2012 2:31 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Maryland plays 60 regular season halves of basketball this year, but you're willing to judge on only one of them?
Maybe I’m being unreasonable, but I hardly feel that’s a large enough sample size to pass judgment on Turgeon.
Did you expect to be competitive against the likes of Duke and UNC this year? I know I didn’t, and yet we were very much in those games for the first 30/35 minutes. I can honestly say that I expected a lot more performances like we had against Virginia and a lot fewer gritty wins and close losses. But that’s just me.
Oh man I have so many issues with that article.
Let’s see:
O’Brien decided he wanted to leave for another school. Maryland decided it didn’t want O’Brien leaving for another ACC school and limited his release accordingly. That eliminated Duke, his old second choice.
Um what? Now we’re also evil because we didn’t let him transfer IN-conference either? We really were supposed to let him go to other ACC schools, Rosenberg? Really?
Maryland’s new offensive coordinator is Mike Locksley. He was the head coach at New Mexico before getting fired last fall.
Last month, a New Mexico player named Zach Dancel decided to transfer.
Guess where he is going.
Yep. Maryland.
To play for his old coach.
Completely ignore that fact that Dancel has to sit out a year and Danny doesn’t and would be able to play at Vanderbilt or wherever next year.
Also: Edsall benched O’Brien.
Gives no other insight into this. Someone who doesn’t follow our team could easily take it that Edsall benched the ACC ROY from the beginning, not after he was struggling. Rosenberg is picking and choosing what to include to spin his argument.
Any given day.
I've been in the
“I hate Edsall, but we can’t afford to buy him out, so we’ll see” camp since the season ended (and it became obvious that this was where we’re at).
But given Rockin’ Randy’s popularity in the media (would he out-poll bubonic plague? not if you ask sportswriters) – can UMD really afford NOT to fire him?? He’s kind of got my sympathy to the extent that I can’t remember another coach at any level or school getting the sustained “fire him now” attention from diverse outlets over a period of time unless he was doing something blatantly illegal. On the other hand, why should UMD be taking this kind of sustained PR hit on behalf of a jackass who was hired to take us “from good to great” and missed.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Testudo Times
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
