B-Ball Team Character...
by WherestheBison on Jan 23, 2012 9:12 AM EST
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PrintI sense a character developing with this team that is somewhat bothersome. I know that this is a new caoch, new 'system', young players, 'soft' players (literally thin and relatively 'weak' front line), etc...BUT...they seem too tentative on offense and lack confidence on both ends of the floor. They seem to get 'defeated' or discouraged easily (body language) and seem to lack both the 'killer-instinct' and the inner confidence to know they can win these games. It IS basketball - after all...is Turge making this too difficult for this group? Your thoughts...
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That's on the coach
The one great quality Gary had was that he had a chip on his shoulder and the players fed off of that.
And they also...
wilted under that chip at times too. There are some who would say it was Gary’s great WEAKNESS.
Children should be seen and not heard.
by CharlesDriesell on Jan 23, 2012 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
Terrence Morris...
Gary had a “once size fits all” approach in how he taught, and coached. It did not work with Terrence Morris.
Why can’t you guys just accept that there have always been those who have been critical of Gary’s “chip” on his shoulder?
Children should be seen and not heard.
by CharlesDriesell on Jan 23, 2012 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
Of course, I can now start the countdown...
to those who want to blame Terrence Morris for his lack of development after his Sophomore season. Or want to apologize for Gary’s handling of Morris.
10, 9, 8, 7…
Children should be seen and not heard.
by CharlesDriesell on Jan 23, 2012 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
No, because Gary Williams...
only method of teaching was “in your face” and he should have used a different approach with the shy Morris.
Children should be seen and not heard.
by CharlesDriesell on Jan 23, 2012 5:39 PM EST up reply actions
As much of a competitiveness as Gary brought I'm not sure any of his players ever felt he mentally overdid it all like a Bobby Knight or a Mike Leach at times.
…but I hear what you’re saying Maybe T Ross would of had a better fit with a coach like Dean Smith or something…mild mannered doesn’t start sweating all the time lol… etc.
Chuck
Next time you win a fuckin Natty, I’ll let you tell me what type of approach coaches should use with shy players. And Terrence made the NBA, btw.
Get off Gary’s nuts, I hope you enjoy Wednesday when he gets the court.
by 1 proud terp on Jan 23, 2012 7:36 PM EST up reply actions
Gotta agree with Chuck...
…I’ve been managing people professionally for the last 18 years. Just like people learn in different ways, not all people respond to the same management style. The key to effective management is learning/knowing what makes people tick, and how they respond to different types of management. Good managers will learn that, and adjust their style to fit the person they’re trying to reach.
Gary knew TM's personality
he’s said so much in interviews at the time TM was in school. I want to know who was at the practices to watch the interaction.
Bottom line is T Morris is such a polite, kind, shy character that is hard to change into a occasional “nasty-streak” kind of player on the court. He’d admit that, and Gary knew it. But I also know he had more intensity on the court that many acknowledge now looking in the rear view mirror. I saw it first hand in person at many games. It’s just that TM would disappear at times by being too selfless on the floor. He aceded to the younger players a little bit too much, but stuff happens.
In terms of skill sets, he had them all. Just didn’t have the MJ style killer instinct.
"A new era has dawned in Maryland Athletics..."
by bball purist on Jan 24, 2012 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
Nik Caner Medley was also like this
Both K and Roy Williams have had this problem this year. Team has the defeated attitude even before the game has started.
by Snappin Terp on Jan 24, 2012 7:08 PM EST up reply actions
I can understand the argument
I mean after all thats what edsall is getting a lot of flack for. I think the players need to buy into his system as they should have garys. But both need to be more accepting of the players and allow them to be their own person and just try to help them operate in the system. Hopefully edsall does this because all the transfers were less than fun for me. Gary had the advantage though that players knew he was like that and if they weren’t willing to deal with it they shouldnt have come.
You all are acting...
like Chuck knows what he is talking about. Unless he attended team practices and meetings, he has little knowledge of how Gary interacted with Morris. As for Gary’s game time demeanor, I would find it hard to believe that Morris wasn’t aware of that when he committed to Maryland.
Right
When I read this I had two thoughts:
First, Chuck is right about the fact that people respond to different types of instruction/motivation. I hated my high school coach, who was a Frank Martin-esque maniac—nonstop yelling, throwing things, etc. I responded much better to my assistant, who would just talk to you at a break in the action and correct stuff. Other players responded better to the head coach—didn’t sink in unless it was yelled at them. In other words, yes, I buy that certain players respond differently to different styles, and a coach should attempt to handle different players accordingly.
Second, I doubt any of us, Chuck included, have any real insight into Gary’s relationship with Morris. We’d have to know (1) what style Morris responded to; and (2) what style Gary used with Morris.
Tough to say that
after they battled in all those non-conference games. I know they were against cupcakes but they could’ve folded in a lot of those games after blowing leads, etc., but still found ways to win.
Don't see it
This is a new team without the upperclassman leadership with a new coach and new system. Mosley was supposed to step it up this year after an unimpressive junior campaign. Hasn’t happened. Is that on the coaches? Hell no. They don’t shoot the ball. Faust was a hot shot scorer who hasn’t been able to hit the broad side of a barn so far. All the guys under the basket are young and inexperienced. I almost believe that Gary saw what was coming with Williams leaving and decided that discretion was the better part of valor and retired.
Turgeon will right this ship…it just ain’t going to happen this year.
OK...
What do we think of the performance of other young and inexperienced teams in the conference and teams also with new coaches versus UMD? Let’s take NCSt for example…best player is a soph…only one senior plays significant minutes…new coach…4-1 in conference…
by WherestheBison on Jan 23, 2012 9:48 AM EST up reply actions
ncst
has a lot of juniors also. padge is our only junior. and we honestly only have 2 upperclassmen that get significant minutes in padge and mosley so we will be better next year when we have a few juniors on the team with 2 years of experience rather than 1
It's Turge's job
to get us to the point where we have better players than them, and just as good players as Dook/UNC. When Turge is playing with a full deck I have no doubt he will get us where we need to go.
seriously?
Go look back at NC States last 3 recruiting classes, they have recruited way better than Gary did. Sidney Lowe couldn’t coach a playoff NBA team to beat college teams.
Wasn't that Gary's downfall?
Gary was a piss poor recruiter of the “high priced” talent because he refused to play the AAU game. That’s fine… he won a national championship anyway but he was never going to recruit the guys that Duke and Carolina get. Thing with Duke is it’s a private university with higher educational standards that most other colleges and they’ve got Coach K.
Turge has got guys on his staff who know how to mine the talent in this area. He’s already got some good players coming in. Give him this year as a washout. We all know it.
by DudleyDoright on Jan 24, 2012 9:07 AM EST up reply actions
Not sure I agree
If you take a look at the entire season, I don’t think this is the case. In fact I would venture to say its the complete opposite. This team has fought back in every game even Temple they were down big and fought back within a point with 3-4 minutes left and Temple hit some big shots. It wasnt us giving up or was Temple executing big plays.
Everyone must remember we lost our best player, the key to our offense, three seniors, two recruit commits and were left with 8 scholarship players going up against the top basketball conference in the nation and a new coach with a new scheme.
If you havent seen how this team has developed especially Padgett, Parker and Stogs your blind. Pe was out two + months with a broken ankle, cant do much. Len also sat out many practices while the NCAA fuck around with his decision and then he has to sit out 10 games being a international player and a freshman. This is the problem with uneducated fans, you have to give it time to succeed. Turge doesnt cheat and Maryland does not have the UNC, Duke, UCLA prestige that those schools have, so its tough to come in with a thin and inexperienced team and win in the best conference in the nation.
by El Goodd Terps13 on Jan 23, 2012 10:54 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
exactly.
not EVERY gary team had that chip or that confidence. and realize that they current team has nothing to rally around except their 2nd smallest player.
-the team is loaded with freshman and sophomores.
-no other acc team had two starters out for almost a dozen games.
-no other acc team lost 5 former starters from their lineup. (hawk, jordan, tucker, bowie, dino)
Not sure that Tucker was a starter at the end of last season
But otherwise, CT, AB & DG had fulfilled their eligibility and would have been gone anyway. Not sure that either CT or AB would be starting on this year’s team had they had another year of eligibility (although DG would likely be starting). Hawk and JW would likely have been starting as well, or at worst, Hawk would be the 6th man. Losing Breunig is likely less of an issue given that Len showed up. However, we’ll never know for sure what Gibbs could have contributed to this team – especially since we still only have one PG.
That said, given the team that MT inherited with the two freshmen additions, I think MT has done a pretty good job thus far. He has not won any games that make me say “AHA” but the progress we’ve seen in Parker’s, Padgett’s and Stogs is a pleasant surprise.
MT was not dealt a good hand or even a decent one. Its uphill this season, however next season looks much rosier. I still think we need another true PG on the roster next season – perhaps a JUCO xfer.
r-hgr
Let's not get crazy
Compare Bowie’s sophomore season to Howard’s 7 or 8 games in. Don’t forget Bowie started over Hayes as a Sophomore and was Maryland’s 2nd best player that year
I agree, good post El Godd....I disagree w/ the main poster...I think in general losing games which you know you could've won demoralizes a team...
There has been definate improvement and that’s what I am looking for this year. If you all can’t see that among certain players (Stogs, Padgett, Faust, Parker) then I don’t know what to say.
Even the team last year (w/ more ready talent) lost a bunch and didn’t look nearly as competitive after the losing streaks. We are still 2-2 in the ACC a place that I wasn’t sure we would be at to start the season.
We have been competitive. When we were down against NC St, and Temple we didn’t give up but fought back to get it close at some points. The players are hustling for loose balls for the most part. I think we have a very-undertalented team that is trying to scrap out some wins with no real consistent option other than Stoglin.
Who else in our starting lineup besides Stogs would start for almost all ACC teams. Peshon is not athletic to be a top tierACC guard. Mosely is way too inconsistent offensively and can be shut down by longer athletic players to be a top tier SF, Padgett isn’t athletic, tall or skilled enough to be an ACC PF, and Len is too raw….
The fact that we are 2-2 is phenomenal. Beat up on Turge a few years from now if he’s underachieved. The players like him and he’s keeping us competitive. I think his basketball philsophy and coaching style and passion for the game is what I want to see in a coach.
"You know my style of play - I know it will be asked - my style of play is winning... " -Mark Turgeon, Maryland Basketball head coach
You are RIGHT
this team has com a long way…..and they are showing promise………You have to say Parker and Pankey are freshmen….they did not play or did not play much last year……you have to admit that they are doing better and expected……..
This team has beaten everyone they were supposed to beat,
and lost to everyone they were supposed to lose to. Among the losses, there’s not a single game where they haven’t been competitive for a significant portion of the game. They have fought in every game right to the wire. They are simply young and frequently overmatched talent-wise.
Bison, you said:
they seem too tentative on offense and lack confidence on both ends of the floor
IMO, that’s exactly what I would expect from a team as young as this. Mosley is a senior. Padgett is a junior chronologically, but a sophomore in terms of playing experience. Stogs and Pe are sophomores. Parker is a freshman in terms of playing experience, Pankey is a redshirt freshman, Lan and Faust are true freshmen, and Weijs is a sophomore in terms of ACC playing experience.
Then, they’re working with a new coach. So far, they have not lost a game I expected them to win pre-season. They’ve won 2 games (Colorado and Notre Dame) I expected them to lose. And had they been at full strength against Illinois, I think they likely would have won that game, too. Based on that, I think they’re ahead of schedule.
Totally disagree.
I see this team putting forth great effort. Their problem is in lack of focus. They have a great run and then they get distracted by their success and stop running the offense.
An example would be in the last game where MVPe comes down and for no good reason at all launches a brick without even so much as a look at anyone – maybe 6 secs came off the clock. Turge was pretty vocal about that shot.
Same game, we made that run to bring it within one point and then we start running a desperation offense and totally lose it.
These are things an immature team does. But there effort, talent, and coaching keps them in the game.
Fear the Turgle!
Exactly
We’ve got a young team, we can’t expect them to play like a team with several upperclassmen starting. I for one am confident in the staff’s ability to bring out the best in the team within the next few years, but for now, we’re going to have to deal with the youth and immaturity that leads to these kinds of mistakes and miscues.
Agreed - good points
It’s not a total positive, but I’ve noticed the hustle back when Pe’ or another PG penetrates and we do not have the other Gs backing the PG up. But the hustle back has been tremendous. A lot of teams would mail in the effort. But I’ve seen 3 or 4 hustle back blocks against the backboard by Mosley, Parker, Stogs and Nick – that tells me something.
"A new era has dawned in Maryland Athletics..."
by bball purist on Jan 23, 2012 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
Not sure.
I think the team is very competitive. They fight really hard to stay in the lead, or stay close. One thing I will say though, is when they miss a needed shot late in the 2nd half or commit a turnover, i do see the sense of defeat or frustration as they don’t hustle to get the ball as hard as they should . So what you just turned the ball over, you RUN down the court and guard your man. That’s what I yell to them every time lol.
I do see this team as competitive, because they are ALL trying to get better. I’m probably one of Pe’Shon’s biggest fans, and i know he hasn’t been playing well, but he’s coming off an injury, and missed the first 8 or 9 games. He’s not playing bad, but just getting into the swing of things. Read his twitter, he’s taking the MEAN criticism people are giving him and he knows he has to improve. He seems very dedicated to get better and try and that’s all we can ask for. He’s not even getting mad at some of the harsh things people are saying, and he’s taking criticism very well, that’s a true basketball player.
Stoglin and Pankey are both the same as well. Know they have to play better. I’m excited to see how well they play once we get into the ACC schedule more, because honestly we could’ve won alot of games we lost, if not due to simple small mistakes.
Don't get me wrong...
Love this team and every player…especially Pe…just seem to lack intensity/fire that was trademark of Gary teams/players. I know they’re all trying their best and appreciate that.
I have to respectfully disagree
Gary’s teams played some games with great fire and he certainly had the reputation that was drummed into us by the press and others and because Gary was frequently yelling obscenities at players on the bench. However, I don’t have to think very far into the past to remember some of GW’s teams coming out flat and uninspired and never picking things up – say last year’s 17 point loss to Va Tech in Comcast or coming out flat and managing to pick things up and eke out a win such as Coll of Charleston also last year and those were both home court games with a team loaded with experience. And I say this with all due affection and respect for Gary Williams.
You shouldn’t mistake the demonstrativeness of a player like GV for intensity and fire. I think Sean Mosley brings it every game. He doesn’t strut and preen like Greivis did. That’s not who Sean is and if tried that it would be a complete sham. But when I see him playing pretty much on one ankle and still racing down the court to try to block a shot after a teammate’s turnover, I see nothing but intensity.
What I see from this team is the confusion of youth that leads to lapses in execution that create holes too deep to crawl out of; a team that’s still learning about its coach and how he wants them to play and a team that’s still forging its identity but one that competes every night despite their lack of experience. I think the fact that they’ve won 12 games in a season where some people on this board probably though before the season that this would be close to their win total for the season has so altered our expectations that we need to not allow ourselves to get carried away.
This team and coach are fine.
We are extremely short handed and young. The mistakes being made are on execution, not effort. But that’s what you’d expect from a young team. This team was fairly competitive most of the game against FSU, and had a great chance to take a win at Temple.
Turge isn’t Gary, and Gary isn’t Turge. Comparisons of the such are unfair to both men. I love Gary and always will(despite Chucky D’s continuing trollish efforts), but I believe Turge will lead us back to glory using HIS type of methods. There’s more than one way to succeed, looking forward watching Turge get us there.
The sad truth is...
You’re confusing a lack of talent for a lack of effort. They are playing hard, they just aren’t good enough.
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