Number 2 Scorer
by Brendan Plutschak on Jan 19, 2012 9:22 AM EST
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PrintI wanted to bring up a point about Maryland needing a #2 scorer, and where that is going to come from in the future. If you look at our two best teams over the past decade, you had multiple scoring options. The national championship team had Dixon, Blake, Baxter, Wilcox, etc. You look at the team from a couple years ago you had Greivis, Hayes, Milbourne, Jordan Williams. Even off the bench that year Cliff Tucker was putting up points.
This year we have been looking and searching for a #2 scorer behind Stoglin. We hoped it would be Faust. Then when we realized Faust wasn't ready we hoped it would be Mosley. Obviously Mosley still is not a dependable scoring option on a winning team.
I want to look past this season into next season. Our two seniors leaving are Mosley and Weis. Our three top recruits coming in are Cleare, Layman, and Allen. My question is going into next year, who can Maryland depend on to be our #2 scorer? Is Faust going to step up and be that guy? Is Len going to step up and be that guy. Is a freshman like Cleare or Layman instantly going to be that guy? We are excited for Maryland basketball, and we are excited for the future of our program, but our biggest problem may be a big problem for longer then just this season.
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JUCO
I think that our #2 scoring option will come in the form of a JUCO player. I think Turge will add a player who he thinks can contribute major minutes from day 1. There really arent any top 100 players who we are still pursuing that would be able to do that. I will admit that I was never a huge fan of Layman, although now that he is a Terp I am 100% onboard, but I still dont think that he will step in from day 1 and be that scorer. I think Shaq will play major minutes but look for him to help with D and rebounding more then scoring.
Howard – just not in his game to be the #2.
Faust – dont see him averaging more than 9-11 pts
Padge – junk buckets, will get his pts but off rebounds
Len – best chance
Allen – will take time, could be effective in a zone.
I think Turge wants that SG/SF from Monroe (I believe). The guy who is shooting like 45% from 3 and is like 6’6.
by Charlotte NC Terp on Jan 19, 2012 9:45 AM EST reply actions
Forgot
Pankey- same eval as Padge
Parker – wild card. He has shown glimpses and I really like the potential he has. He has taken a big step forward this year. He could explode his junior year
by Charlotte NC Terp on Jan 19, 2012 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
Layman vs. Amile Jefferson
I’ll be interested in seeing who becomes the better college player. I know they are slightly different players(Layman: 3-2 & AJ: 3-4) but I feel like we had our pick of the two, and Layman pulled the trigger first. Based on Jake’s recently ridiculous numbers, and the fact that AJ is a possible dukie, I think things will work out better for us. I really hope Jake’s perimeter game translates to college, because with Shaq & Len down low, he should be able to get plenty of open looks.
I also hope Shaq has real good hands, so he can catch the quick dishes from Stogs as he drives the lane. I think Stogs is hesitant to pass this year because our bigs have bad hands and fumble shit away. I think this is the next logical progression in Stogs’ game, as Turge continues to develop him.
by 1 proud terp on Jan 19, 2012 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
The real question is Jake Layman vs. Jerami Grant
I’m not sure we’ve had a real shot at Amile Jefferson since his offers blew up this season. He has been more interested in Ohio State, Duke and Villanova than us for a while now.
When Layman committed the real question was were we going to get Jerami Grant and all signs pointed towards us making an extremely strong last minute push for him (including an official visit to the Miami game). When Layman committed Grant took MD out of consideration, so it would seem that MD was taken out directly due to Laymans committment.
I'm already fairly confident that Jake will turn out better than Grant.
Jake just has more ways to contribute, so I’m actually glad that we got him over Grant. Besides, the Grant family has dissed UMD for a few decades, I never expected one to come play for us.
As for AJ, you’re right, I don’t believe we were ever the front runners, but I think we were probably in his top 3 at the time(before duke got in the mix). I’m not saying we would’ve landed him, but Bino was working him HAM, and I wouldn’t put it past him to be able to seal the deal with AJ. But, AJ immediately lost all interest in us once Jake verballed, so that is why I will be comparing the two next year in my head, to see how they stack up. I just hope to god that he doesn’t pick duke, because I’ll be forced to HATE him, and I really love his game.
by 1 proud terp on Jan 19, 2012 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
Hope you are right
They are ranked around the same area, only difference I’ve seen in ranking is that Layman busted onto the scene much later than Grant did. Layman has the reputation from his AAU coach has a solid defender and his write up says he has a nice 3 point touch so I hope it is all accurate.
I agree with AJ though, I’d of much rather had him than Layman, but I’m loving this conversation because we are arguing over what Top 50 recruit is better for us to have, lol
Haha, exactly. Porsche vs. Ferrari...good problem to have.
What I like most about Jake is his ability to cause havoc with his length in the press. We don’t press at all right now, and I’m looking forward to some easy buckets from our defense next year. Just leave Shaq back on D(like the Joe Smith days), and have the rest of the team ballhawking like Johnny Rhodes and Exree Hipp. Faust is probably as BEAST in the press, too.
Jake does have a nice 3 point touch, didn’t he hit like 9 or 10 in one game last year? I’m picturing next year, when Turge unleashes his secret weapon, Big Len bombing from deep, our best 3 point shooters will be 6’ 9’ and 7’. Try to get a hand in THEIR face!
by 1 proud terp on Jan 19, 2012 4:07 PM EST up reply actions
That'd be nasty
I hope that Laymans offense converts well to college. What worried me was his lack of offense in teh big AAU games
That team was all about Nerlens Noell
Nonetheless, I don’t think Layman will come on like gangbusters as a freshman. He may not shine till late in his freshman or in his sophmore year.
Balanced Scoring
The big question is not who will be number 2 but who will be 3, 4, and 5 and who off the bench. We need scoring contributions from all starters and bench players. I think we are already answering this question. The three wing players, Faust, Mosley, and Parker are all contributing more with each game. All three wings can score more this year. Three of our bigs are contributing also but Len needs to step up because he is capable of scoring more than he is now.
If Howard develops into the point that we need him to he will rarely get double digits in scoring. All three recruits next year should contribute as well but not as much their freshman year. We are not there yet but should be soon.
Need More
We need more then 5 PPG from Parker, Faust, Padgett, and the deeper players in order to have balanced scoring.
by Brendan Plutschak on Jan 19, 2012 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
I think Len, out of necessity, has been playing out of position this year.
I see him as a natural 4. He lacks the strength right now to play the 5 in the ACC, and it shows. Once Cleare gets here, Len can move to the 4, and utilize his mid-range game more than he can now. Hopefully, he’ll gain some strength in the off-season, and be more capable filling in at the 5 when Cleare needs a break. Padge will still be a junk man.
Also, right now other ACC teams don’t see any of our bigs as threats in a halfcourt offense. Getting Cleare in the middle and Len at the 4 should open things up more for the wings. I look for Faust and maybe Parker to come up big next season, and I think Layman will surprise a lot of people, too.
yeah. ditto.
and from Len moving out i see more balanced scoring, with stoglin still being the lead man if he’s here. the jumps in play that will happen from parker, Len and faust will probably be about the same. i would think maybe 10+ points per game from each of them. if faust finds his shot then he’s going to become the #2.
making him the point guard early has forced him to know all of the team’s offense. you see him talking to people after busted plays even though he’s playing the wing. it seems to have helped him find windows to score lately too. shaq and layman will be on the scoreboard too. and unless parker makes a monster jump i think the front line midseason will be shaq/5, Len/4, layman/3.
Layman will be 2nd/3rd option at the 3 next year
With Stoglin and Howard presumably the starters at the 2 and 1 respectively and Mosley graduating, I look at Faust and/or Parker to step up for the starting 3 spot. The loser of the battle presumably taking over as the backup. Unless Layman comes in next year and straight up dominates in practice I can see him being a redshirt candidate, which is not a bad thing at all.
I don't necessarily disagree,
but there is a caveat: If neither Faust nor Parker can score consistently from beyond the arc, and Layman is as deadly as some are saying he is, Layman will steal some time from them. Faust can fill in for Stogs to add some PT, but Parker could wind up the odd man out.
Agreed
I was banking that opinion on Parker and Faust continuing to improve as the season went on and in the off-season. It certainly would not hurt us one bit to redshirt Layman and spread things out a little bit, but then again we aren’t taking in a ton of scholarships in that class so far anyways.
But I agree, if Layman is as deadly from 3 point range as Dave Telep says he is in the write-up about him, then he will steal time from Parker at the minimum. Layman really jumped on the scene as an absurd defender (6’8" guy defending the 1 position in AAU), so we know he is a good defender, the scoring against high level competition is what remains to be seen.
the way it looks now
parker has a spot as the ‘flex guy’. versatile on defense, capable on offense, good on both boards, and a spot defender. unless he develops a true offensive game i don’t know if he’ll ever crack the starting lineup. i love his abilities, but a taller version in layman is on the way next year, and he has a better overall feel for the game and a scorer’s ability to boot (it seems). turgeon likes parker, i think but right now he cherishes him in that 6th/7th man role.
presuming howard and stoglin start is actually the toss up. stoglin may mature into a passer (haha) and faust may find himself at the starting 2 where we all envisioned.
kinda.
your joking right?
Stoglin won’t start at the 1 next year, he only plays it this year in relief when Pe’ has to sit, and even then it appears to be a group effort between him, mosley and faust. I can see Faust starting next year with Parker coming in when Faust needs a breather. Allen can sub in at both guard positions or Faust could move to the 2 if needed.
I doubt that Layman redshirts next year, I was just saying it is a possiblity. As it stands, it is highly unlikely because if Stoglin is in foul trouble and Pe’ needed a breather you’d have to have Allen/Faust/Parker as your 1/2/3 with no one else behind them, so I don’t see them going that thin.
No way Layman redshirts.
As it stands now, we’ll have 10 scholarship players on the roster next year. I don’t see Turge being anxious to drop that to 9, especially with an athletic, 6-8, 4-star recruit who shoots well from beyond the arc. Let’s face it, a consistent 3-point shooter is something we’re lacking this year (and have been for the past couple of years).
Turge will find him plenty of playing time.
This...no way Jake redshirts.
Already short-handed enough.
by 1 proud terp on Jan 19, 2012 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
I doubt it
I doubt he redshirts, just said it could be a possibility. I was making an assumption we at least land a JUCO or another commit this year to improve depth.
We haven’t had a consistent 3 point shooter in a while, even Mike Jones was streaky (but when he got hot he never missed!). So like I said above, if Laymans scoring ability is legit and transfers to the college game immediately, I’m all for him getting significant playing time.
i put stoglin starting up in the air based on the wild and wacky things that the nba instigates
realistically thinking, if Pe stays in this turnover and no points funk indefinitely then he would be demoted to the backup point. of course meaning if stoglin can pass. —and he has proven that he can. if he’s thinking nba then he knows he needs to show he can run the point. and if the last couple games are any indicator you notice turgeon had him back on the 1 pretty frequently.
True
But realistically he’s gonna have to develop a post game in the next year or two if he wants a good NBA draft profile. At this point, he could probably get drafted on size and potential alone but his career will be quickly forgotten if he can’t find a way to score, especially above the rim.
i forgot padgett & pankey
they’ll be in the mix next season too. padgett more than pankey because i don’t see pankey getting offensive touches unfortunately.
If Pankey could just develop a left hand
He’d be a very good option for Turge. At this point, though, he’s a right hand and other teams know it.
Padgett and Pankey are different types of players.
Padge is a banger…willing and able to work inside getting rebounds and garbage buckets, but he doesn’t have much for touch.
Pankey seems to have good touch, and probably has a decent mid-range game, but he doesn’t (yet) have the bulk to bang a lot down low.
Develop Padge’s mid-range game, and get Pankey into the weight room, and we’ll probably have interchangeable parts. Padge will be gone by the time Pankey adds enough bulk, but by Pankey’s junior year, I thin k he’ll be a more complete player than Padge.
A little early to give up on Faust
He really went to the basket well the other night and even hit a couple of nice mid-range jumpers. We can only hope he continues to learn to not rely on the 3 so much. I wouldn’t give up on him yet as a reliable 2nd or 3rd option. He certainly has the athleticism to create his own shot and his thin frame and long arms actually helps him squeeze through tight lanes and avoid blocks when slashing to the basket. Plus we have to remember he’s only had about three weeks to play his natural position so far
Agreed
I think Faust can definitely be a number two scorer last year. He could be the number three scorer on a very good team. He will improve a lot with an offseason of strength training (and Len) and a year of experience.
by KHemer on Jan 19, 2012 2:19 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
he could improve a lot
by taking like 4-500 shots a day with a different shot. his shot right now looks disgusting
by djcarv2005 on Jan 19, 2012 2:47 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The two big questions are...#1 Who will relpace Mosely (or who gets his spot in the rotation) and #2 Will Peshon be able to keep his minutes and lead role at the point?
I’m assuming in the frontcourt Shaq will end up playing the 5 and Len will play the 4 * He’ll have to earn it over Padgett though because Padgett has really been bringing it in some games…but Len’s 7 foot 1 prescence on the defensive end cannot be underestimated (see Georgia Tech game).
Q. Who replaces Mosely? A. We will have the luxury of having a three headed monster (Faust, Parker, Layman). Right now Faust and Parker seem neck and neck in their developement. Parker by the numbers for the time he gets is an impresive rebounder and Faust is showing some good defensive instincts. Layman will have to earn his way into the mix and if his 3 point shooting translates he will be getting some time…I would be surprised if he is able to become the front runner in terms of minutes in his freshman season…I think more likely Faust at times will slide over to 2 and Stoglin will become 1 and Layman and Parker get time at 3. Layman could also get time a the 2 when Stoglin needs a break. Basically the 3 becomes a committee with Faust and Layman also getting time at the 2 for Stoglin when he is on the bench or in the game playing point guard.
Point Guard- at least Turge gets to add one more card into the mix. Seth Allen will get his chances to prove he is formidible and at minimum be a bonifide point guard sub for Peshon. How will Peshon do? Will he keep his minutes? I believe Peshon will get better each year and will learn how to minimize his turnovers when he drives but I’m hoping what happens is that Seth Allen is comparable and that Turgeon is able to interchange them as needed. If Seth isn’t ACC ready and if Peshon isn’t able to overcome his struggles than don’t be surpised to see Stoglin at point with the committee (Faust, Parker, Layman) taking respective spots at the 2 and 3.
PG is the big question mark next season, IMO.
We have options everywhere else: Shaq and Len at the 5; Len, Padgett and Pankey at the 4; Faust, Parker and Layman at the 3; and Stogs, Faust, Layman and Allen at the 2. If Pe’ can prove himself capable against ACC competition, I think we’ll be just fibe next year (Allen will get some time, and Stogs can fill in in a pinch). If Pe’ doesn’t show significant improvement (and Allen doesn’t progress at a ridiculously fast rate), we could struggle in ACC play next year.
Adding a JUCO PG to the 2012 class wouldn’t bother me in the least. Such a player would be older, would have some college-level (albeit junior college) experience, and likely wouldn’t deter a quality PG in the 2013 class.
the 5 position
I think, at least early on in ACC play, we might see Len at the 5 and Padgett starting the 4. This isn’t saying Shaq needs time to develop, this is more or less how is conditioning is coming in. IF his conditioning is up to par where he can play a lot in the “cake” games and really get himself into game shape and develop during those games, he’ll see big minutes. But, in the short term, we may see Len playing the 5, or possibly Turgeon playing it so he is utilizing Len and Padgett at the 4 position at the same time.
My question is:
why do people continue to expect freshman to be big contributors (especially offensively)?
by terppride on Jan 19, 2012 10:17 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Faust stands out to me to take over as #2 scorer next year
He’ll learn a lot this year in ACC play. Give him all off season to work in the weight room (with Alex) and on his shots, I expect to see a big improvement in him next year.
This year, we are in trouble with an injured Mosley. If he can get healthy and start scoring regularly, he’ll pull out a few bames for us. Otherwise, we’re in big trouble.
If there's any lesson to take from this year, it's don't expect big things from freshmen!!
Both Faust and Len have had their moments, but they are not going to be go-to players or a consistent 2nd scoring option this year. Stoglin was just starting to show flashes of what to expect this year at the end of the season last year. I therefore do not expect big things from either Layman or Shaq next year (or Allen), and neither should you. They will show flashes, but nothing consistent, especially early on.
Onto the main question, I agree with the poster above that said we shouldn’t stop at only 2 scoring options: most of the starting lineup should ideally be able to get theirs on any given day, with possibly one glue guy to do the dirty work. In order of likelihood, I’d say I’ll look for bigger contributions from Len, Faust, Parker/Padgett, and then Pankey. Howard doesn’t need to put up big points to be effective. Padge should be our garbage man, but I do have hopes that he’ll at least average double digit points (he’s at about 9 now). I think Len, Faust and Padgett are all capable of scoring 10+ ppg next year. So if I had to pick a likely #2 option for next year it’d be Len, but I hope we have 3-4 players that can put the points up, and that everyone gets more consistent.
regarding freshman
Everyone overhyped Faust when he was coming in. Yes, he was a top 40/50 SG/SF in his class, but you rarely see freshman play to the levels that many were expecting of Faust. People were expecting Faust to come in and take over games, dominate the points, etc. You rarely see that out of anyone that isn’t a 5 star recruit, and hell a lot of the time unless the recruit went to Kentucky, the freshman aren’t getting the huge minutes to prove themselves.
Faust had it hard both ways, he is a freshman learning to adapt to college, and he was expected to come in and play well at a position he had not played in a long time (for the first part of the season). While playing at PG will probably prove extremely valuable in the long run of Faust learning the offense and what hte PG is expecting him to do, it really hindered his development playing the 2/3, as he was expected to pass and not shoot as much. And lets not forget, he is a FRESHMAN, I haven’t seen such high expectations out of a non top-5 player before.
To be fair
I think a lot of the “disappointment” with Faust is that he isn’t a sharpshooter.
I 100% agree that expectations were too high, and 100% agree that he will be a great player at Maryland. We haven’t had too many freshmen come in and be expected to contribute over the last few years. He hustles on defense, has started attacking the basket, and has flashed a good mid-range game.
The disappointment, I think, stems from the fact that his jumper needs a lot of work. I had heard that he was a streaky 3 point shooter—but I haven’t seen much in the way of good streaks at this point. In other words, a lot of us thought we would be getting a 3-point shooter (which we have generally lacked in recent seasons).
In other words, I think everyone is very happy with Faust’s hustle, defense, and attitude, and I’m pretty pleased with his decision making. The disappointment is directed solely at his shooting ability—and that is what is often focused upon, making people sound more “down” on him than they actually are.
I can agree with that
but when I read his evals I always thought he was a better slasher than a 3 point shooter. When high school teams are willing to concede the 3 point shot to him to guard his penetration skills it makes me think that his shot is iffy. I’ll agree that his shot is way off what I thought it was, but I look past it because he is a freshman. I’m sure Turge will have him in the gym everyday improving that shot.
Yea--I'm sure the legitimate evaluations
recognizd that he wasn’t a pure shooter—for some reason I feel like the “sharpshooter” reputation unfairly caught on, probably as a result of one ridiculous tournament or something.
There is time to fix his shot, in the offseason. It is a bit frustrating that it wasn’t remedied before the seasons, however.
All that said—I definitely want to reiterate that I don’t think anyone should be criticial of Faust’s game as a whole. We might not have gotten what we thought we were getting, but that doesn’t mean what we got is bad.
It's a little puzzling, because,
as I recall, didn’t he drain something like three straight 3s in the Maryland Madness exhibition?
Maryland fans
I’m sure we’re not the only fanbase that this is true for, but I think it’s just that we as a fanbase are just so hungry for someone to step up and take us back to where we think the program should be that we’re trying to will it upon people. I know that I for one won’t be happy until we’re back to worrying more about what our seed will be in March than whether we even get in.
But this is a process, and it’s going to take more than a year. To me, Nick is sort of like this year’s team itself in microcosm: if you’re looking for a savior or expecting success, you’re more often than not going to be disappointed; if you’re not expecting too much and simply looking for small but increasingly consistent improvement to build on in future years, things are looking pretty rosy.
More inside bulk
I think getting stronger inside is the key, and I think that will help the guys on the outside too.
Alex Len needs to bulk up, which I suspect he’s realizing now that he’s playing ACC games and getting banged around. Cleare is one inch shorter than Weijs but 70! pounds heavier – he’ll add a strong inside presence. Those two, along with improving games from the other big guys, could help the team a lot.
If Len bulks up, I’m not convinced he couldn’t be the 5. He’s obviously got the height for it. A stronger version of Len would be very hard to stop inside.
Faust is still a freshman – I expect he’ll be better once he has a year of experience under his belt. Presumably he’ll be the starter next year with Layman as his backup.
Having said all that, I really don’t see anyone that stands out as a strong possibility for a clear “number 2.” I think Faust has the best chance to take that role, but it will take contributions from everyone.
Assumption is the mother of all @#%-ups.
Recommended reading: Death to the BCS
Len won't play the 5
he play start off there next year while Shaq gets in game shape, but he is a natural 4. Once Shaq gets himself in game shape and acclamated to the ACC game, Len is all about the 4 spot.
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