ACC expansion by the numbers...
These Big East teams have all been suggested as fits for ACC expansion. They are ranked in order of best Academics/Athletics ratio according to their National University rankings and the Learfield Sports Directors’ Cup Rankings. AAU denotes membership to the prestigious Association of American Universities. *Asterisk shows that University Rankings can tie based on the formula used.
|
Big East Conference |
Teams |
National University Ranking |
Sports-Directors’ Cup Ranking |
Academics to Sports Average |
|
|
Notre Dame |
19 |
18 |
18.5 |
|
|
UConn |
58* |
44 |
51 |
|
|
Syracuse |
62 |
61 |
61.5 |
|
AAU Member |
Pitt |
58* |
123 |
90.5 |
|
|
Louisville |
164* |
34 |
99 |
|
|
West Virginia |
164* |
40 |
102 |
|
AAU Member |
Rutgers |
68 |
158 |
113 |
UConn makes a very strong case to be a part of the ACC with two very strong rankings, as does Syracuse. One thing you may notice is the average of Pitt and WVU aren’t too far apart. So why is WVU not getting any love? No one’s doubting the athletic strength of West Virginia, but their academic ranking is more than double that of Pitt’s. And they're not an AAU member like Pitt. Even with a pretty awful sports ranking, the addition of Pitt into the ACC may show just how much the presidents do weigh academics to potential sports money.
Now lets look at how the ACC stands and where our new members would rank…
|
ACC Conference |
Teams |
National University Ranking |
Sports- Directors’ Cup Ranking |
Academics to Sports Average |
|
AAU Member |
Duke |
10 |
5 |
7.5 |
|
AAU Member |
Virginia |
25 |
7 |
16 |
|
AAU Member |
UNC |
29 |
6 |
17.5 |
|
AAU Member |
Maryland |
55 |
17 |
36 |
|
|
Miami |
38 |
51 |
44.5 |
|
AAU Member |
Georgia Tech |
36 |
59 |
47.5 |
|
|
Boston College |
31 |
64 |
47.5 |
|
|
Wake Forest |
25 |
74 |
49.5 |
|
|
Florida State |
101… yikes |
9 |
55 |
|
|
Clemson |
68 |
47 |
57.5 |
|
|
Virginia Tech |
71 |
45 |
58 |
|
|
Syracuse |
62 |
61 |
61.5 |
|
|
NC State |
101… yikes2.0 |
67 |
84 |
|
AAU Member |
Pittsburgh |
58 |
123 |
90.5 |
First Thoughts- Duke, UVA, and UNC are incredibly impressive.
Next Thought- Look at Maryland!... Very proud to be an alum.
Things I take away from this- We have added to academic institutions that fit very well with our conference. While they look to be at the bottom according to the average, remember this stuff does not include market or power sports money such as football and basketball. ‘Cuse and Pitt each bring a new market and BIGTIME basketball.
Biggest Disappointment- NC State… seriously? With those scores and knowing that they haven’t been relevant in Football or Basketball in some time, and that we have plenty of other schools in North Carolina makes me ask what the hell are they doing for this conference? I think State fans should start showing a little more gratitude for being allowed to be in such great company in this conference.
Now where does the ACC go from here when it comes to a possible expansion to 16 teams? Here are the teams that are probably being looked at the closest… (Sorry WVU, but unless you are able to convince NC State to honorably resign from the ACC, it wont be happening)
|
Conference |
AAU Member |
Team |
National University Ranking |
Directors’ Cup Ranking |
Academics to Athletics Average
|
|
BigEast/Ind |
No |
Notre Dame |
19 |
18 |
18.5 |
|
Big Ten |
Yes |
Penn State |
45 |
13 |
29 |
|
Big East |
No |
UConn |
58 |
44 |
51 |
|
Big East |
Yes |
Rutgers |
68 |
158 |
113 |
Notre Dame would be an obvious choice. Not an AAU member but still one of the elite academic and athletic institutions in the country. But to those around the country who feel they don't belong in the ACC, the numbers show that they wouldn't crack the top 3. Yes, in football money they would wipe the floor with the the schools of the ACC, but as far as a general academic and athletic standards, the Irish could benefit from joining the ACC.
Here's where it gets interesting. Penn St, believed by many to be a great geographical and cultural fit for the ACC, has rankings that would make them only the 8th strongest school academically (4th in the BigTen) and the 5th strongest school athletically (2nd in the BigTen) in the ACC. Here is the Big Ten rankings to prove it...
|
Big Ten Conference |
Teams |
National University Ranking |
Sports- Directors’ Cup Ranking |
Academics to Sports Average |
|
AAU Member |
Michigan |
28 |
15 |
21.5 |
|
AAU Member |
Ohio State |
55 |
2 |
28.5 |
|
AAU Member |
Northwestern |
12 |
46 |
29 |
|
AAU Member |
Penn State |
45 |
13 |
29 |
|
AAU Member |
Illinois |
45 |
23 |
34 |
|
AAU Member |
Wisconsin |
42 |
26 |
34 |
|
AAU Member |
Minn |
68 |
29 |
48.5 |
|
AAU Member |
Indiana |
75 |
28 |
51.5 |
|
AAU Member |
Purdue |
62 |
49 |
55.5 |
|
AAU Member |
Michigan State |
71 |
42 |
56.5 |
|
AAU Member |
Iowa |
71 |
43 |
57 |
|
|
Nebraska |
101 |
33 |
67 |
One thing to notice is the AAU Membership; 11 of 12 schools in the Big Ten compared to 6 of 14 in the ACC. But the academics and athletics are actually very close between the two conferences. The academic average of the ACC is 50 and the Big Ten is 43... If you take away the far outliers of both conferences (FSU/NCST in ACC and Neb in Big Ten), the average is ACC-41 and Big Ten- 40.
Final thoughts and Point to all this..
Football is the money maker but looking at these numbers you should be able to see how academics and other sports success could heavily influence institutions when it comes to conference realignment. I think the ACC could pull off getting Penn St. because these numbers show there is minimal academic/athletic loss but they immediately become a top dog in football, which they would love to be since they probably think they wish they have had more success in the Big Ten.
Lastly... After writing all this out, I can see how the B1G has some serious options if they wished to expand. I think Maryland and Virginia, especially Maryland, could be serious options for them if they felt the conference needed to expand. Yes, neither of those schools is a football power, but that's not what this post was about....
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Comments
ACC is never getting ND or PSU
ND is not giving up independence and PSU would never leave the B1G for the ACC.
interesting to see how the school stack up. i think the academics will be a factor, but the ACC already sold out it’s academic rep when it let florida state in. but i’m guessing WVU and L’ville would be a last resort option.
and really the only sports that matter are football and men’s basketball. all the other sports are just a bonus. money, specifically tv dollars, is still by far the most important factor.
HELLO HELLO MR WILPON... BUY THAT MANSION. WE DONT NEED A CONDO.
Yes, nice post
Just a minor correction, Minnesota is an AAU member. The Big Ten took a lot of pride in having all of its members belong and that changed only after Nebraska got the boot. They were in the AAU at the time they were approved to join the B1G.
Thank you..
for the correction. Minnesota is absolutely on the list. I must have just passed them over by mistake. You are saying that Nebraska was in the AAU but now isnt? Or that they have recently been accepted into the AAU as they moved to the B1G?
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by NattyBoAndOldBay on Sep 25, 2011 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions
they were an AAU member
then, after they joined the B1G they were kicked out of the AAU for not spending enough money on research. Nebraska says the AAU unfairly doesn’t count the money the spend on agricultural research. or something like that. i’m not well versed in this particular issue.
HELLO HELLO MR WILPON... BUY THAT MANSION. WE DONT NEED A CONDO.
Good job
Nice post … it’s helpful to see the academic and athletic numbers side-by-side.
Penn State would be a great fit in the ACC but their media rights are owned by the Big Ten. They are not going anywhere for a while, if ever.
If the Big Ten was going to go after ACC schools, it would only consider the AAU members. Nebraska would not have gotten into the Big Ten if it wasn’t an AAU member at the time. Maryland might be first on the list (Penn State would be happier with another eastern school). But I don’t expect it to happen.
Notre Dame won’t give up its independence if it doesn’t have to. However, if the Big East turns into a really mediocre league (or implodes), ND may have to decide whether or not football independence is worth having all of its Olympic sports in a bad conference.
NC State, unfortunately, is a logical target for the SEC. While I don’t really care whether NCSU is in the ACC or not, I don’t want the SEC to have a presence in North Carolina … it wouldn’t help the ACC in any way. I seriously doubt it would happen, but it makes sense for the SEC.
Yall are right regarding the AAU and Nebraska. I think it got penalized in part because its medical campus is not on the main campus. The AAU recently also changed its criteria for inclusion and that hurt Nebraska as well as Syracuse
Syracuse is a former AAU member but recently voluntarily left because of the criteria change and concern that some of its grants weren’t included in determining a school’s acceptability for the AAU.
Bottom line … the ACC should NOT expand unless it can get a huge prize, i.e. Notre Dame.
Assumption is the mother of all @#%-ups.
Good notes
No one mentions Cornell. Is the Ivy league untouchable?
by Snappin Terp on Sep 26, 2011 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
No but...
I would believe the board would never approve a president’s decision to leave the ivy league to go to another conference. Like people talk of Notre Dame alums all over the US that still follow/invest in ND football… the ivy league alums are much much more influential.
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by NattyBoAndOldBay on Sep 26, 2011 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
why would any school leave the ivy league?
most schools would give their metaphorical left nut to get in the most exclusive and prestigious of all college clubs. you couldnt find a student, alumnus or administrator at any ivy that thinks leaving the conference is a good idea.
HELLO HELLO MR WILPON... BUY THAT MANSION. WE DONT NEED A CONDO.
Imagine...
Harvard leaves the ivy for the ACC and Mark Zuckerburg designs their new uniforms… i actually want to know what those would look like
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by NattyBoAndOldBay on Sep 26, 2011 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
if the SEC were going to target an ACC school
i assume they’d go for the most valuable brands in UNC and Florida State. Maybe Clemson. not first for NC State.
HELLO HELLO MR WILPON... BUY THAT MANSION. WE DONT NEED A CONDO.
UNC is untouchable...
UNC wouldnt break ties with the research triangle schools no matter who came calling. I think youre right that SEC would want them first. I think their best shot is clemson.
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by NattyBoAndOldBay on Sep 26, 2011 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah i dont see UNC going anywhere either
i do think that whoever the SEC gets to even out it’s conference is going to set off a few more realignment dominoes. and if the big 12 manages to entice some big east teams to join them you can consider that conference screwed.
HELLO HELLO MR WILPON... BUY THAT MANSION. WE DONT NEED A CONDO.
What does Florida State offer the SEC?
- A new market? No (unless you consider Tallahassee a new market). They’ve already got Florida in the SEC.
- A new recruiting ground? Nope.
- A good football team? Yes … but the SEC already has plenty of good football teams. Why does it need another?
What does NC State offer the SEC?
- A new television market? Yes. NCSU is in Raleigh, and the SEC in North Carolina would also attract more attention in Charlotte.
- A new recruiting ground? Yes. North Carolina is ranked the #9 state for football recruiting over the past ten years (based on number of BCS-school recruits signed).
- A good football team? Nope, not really. But that does not need to be an issue – the SEC is stacked with great football teams. The advantage to the SEC is a new market and a presence in a great recruiting state.
UNC would be a better grab than NCSU, but I can’t imagine UNC even considering leaving the ACC. NCSU is at least somewhat in the realm of possibility (although still not likely).
Assumption is the mother of all @#%-ups.
im pretty sure Florida State offers more tv viewers than NC State
which is the number 1 priority with all these conference shuffling.
i dont think nc state is completely out of the question, i just think the sec has better options (for them anyway).
HELLO HELLO MR WILPON... BUY THAT MANSION. WE DONT NEED A CONDO.
by kendynamo on Sep 26, 2011 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

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