Maryland (and Duke?) Wants the ACC to Keep Expanding
by Ben Broman on Sep 19, 2011 10:39 AM EDT
in Other Maryland Athletics
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Phew. What a whirlwind 48 hours. We'll get to more stuff about the two newest members of the ACC, but if Maryland has any say, the train isn't stopping here. Per the Jeff Barker at the Baltimore Sun, the Terrapins' athletic department is partnering with - get this - Duke, in privately pushing for the addition of two more teams, thereby making the ACC the first conference to go to 16.
Maryland and Duke are among those privately expressing interest in a 16-team conference, according to ACC-member representatives with knowledge of recent private discussions. According to the representatives, other ACC schools also favor moving to 16 but at least one unnamed member was against expansion. [...]
But officials from two ACC schools cautioned Sunday that the conference was not close to being ready to approve Connecticut - not all members are on board with that move - or any other school as a 15th or 16th member. The officials, who declined to be named while the matter was ongoing, declined to put a timetable on the next possible expansion.
Barker singles out Rutgers and UConn as two of the schools under consideration, and that's no surprise. He also mentions that Florida State wants to make sure that the football profile of the conference remains high through any further expansion.
And John Swofford himself seems moderately open to the idea of getting even bigger, saying he isn't "philosophically opposed" to the conference going to 16 teams. And if they want to, they'll have plenty of options, given that Swofford also claimed that at least 10 schools had contacted him about membership.
So, if the conference wanted to add two more - or, if the Big Ten or SEC poaches one of their members, one or three more - where would they look? Remember that the ACC appears to be looking for geographic and cultural fits, both of which apply to Pitt and Cuse. This isn't the Pac-12 adding Oklahoma; both Pitt and Syracuse make sense even without money factoring in, and I'm guessing that is an actual concern for the conference through all of this. Keeping that in mind, let's look at the options:
UConn. Frontrunner #1, Connecticut is a great fit for what the Super-ACC appears to be looking for. They're eminently eastern, with good academics, a decent fanbase, some penetration into a big TV market, great basketball, and not-embarrassing football. And importantly for Maryland, they'd continue to move the conference's geographic center farther north and much closer to College Park. They're aggressively pursuing membership already anyway.
Rutgers. Frontrunner #2, based on what the media keep saying. Rutgers is basically Connecticut, except in New Jersey and much worse in basketball. I'm not in love with adding RU, mostly because I'm not sure what they bring that Connecticut doesn't (and less efficiently, at that) except a few more eyeballs in NYC - and, really, I'm not entirely sold on that, either. I wouldn't be opposed to it if that's what ended up happening, but I feel like the conference could probably do better.
Texas. Sorry: doesn't look like this is happening. Now that the ACC holds most of the leverage in realignment, it looks like the idea of Texas to the ACC has cooled off on both sides. Texas didn't want to share revenue, and once it became clear that the ACC's future as a conference wasn't threatened, the conference wasn't as receptive to the idea of letting Texas have an unmodified LHN. It appears the Longhorns are all-in for the Pac-12 now. That may not be a bad thing; Texas wasn't a geographical or cultural fit, and the idea of bringing along Texas Tech or Kansas with them was a little nauseating.
Louisville. I live in the Looeyville area now, and I have some conflicted feelings about this. On the good side, Louisville makes tons of financial sense. The city has no pro sports except a minor league team, so the Cardinals in essence have become their pro team, and they support them ferociously. They bring along a Richmond-sized TV market, plus one of the biggest, most flush athletic departments in the country. UL basketball is the 21st most profitable program in the country ... including football. That is, Louisville basketball makes more money than Florida State football. And that was before the state-of-the-art, terribly-named Yum Center opened up.
And hey, they're a basketball school with decent football, which again fits the profile. Geographically, things wouldn't be terrible - for Maryland, a trip to Louisville isn't any worse than a trip to Boston or Miami - but I have cultural concerns. First of all, they certainly aren't "eastern," either culturally or geographically. Louisville is a Midwestern river city at its heart, and past that there's some of the Kentucky Derby-type southern genteel you'd expect. There's very little "Atlantic coast" personality here, either in the city or the school. And academically, though improving, they'd instantly be the lowest-ranked school in the conference. They should still be considered for financial reasons, but it'd be a tough decision to make.
West Virginia. For some reason you hear people say this is a fit, and perhaps it makes some modicum of sense geographically, but I think most people who know WVU know they aren't. They don't fit in either culturally or academically, which is the big killer to their bid. Their programs are profitable enough for them, but I'm not sure what they bring to a conference. Hopefully no legs to this.
South Florida or Central Florida. The conference already has penetration into every major TV market in the Sunshine State, so USF and UCF would do nothing more than take away from the pie while adding decent, not great, football teams. Not good enough.
Kansas or Kansas State. Don't fit in at all, and add only one worthwhile program - Kansas basketball. The three other revenue sports don't really do much at all.
Notre Dame or Penn State. Hey, might as well go for the jugular. I've heard some fans talk about both as potential ACC targets. ND isn't a fit in any way besides money, but Penn State would fit in just fine. Besides the fact that they're in the B1G already, of course. Then again, they're not much more in love with the conference than, say, Maryland was in love with the old ACC. I doubt anything would happen, but you never know.
So, exit question: you're John Swofford (hypothetically, I hope). Who do you go after? Who do you invite? Do you do anything? Discuss.
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geography
i like that we are sticking to the east coast. add uconn and penn st.
If were gonna bring in 'Nova
we might has well bring in Georgetown. No football, equal in B-ball, would make them play us in B-ball, would make the conference better academically and form a killer lacrosse conference.
by kaptainterp on Sep 19, 2011 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Also
Accepting Georgetown could change the power swing from Tobacco Road to DC.
by Maryland Pride on Sep 19, 2011 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
What about poaching South Carolina from the SEC?
They were an original ACC member, and probably have the largest profile football program to allay FSU. No idea if they’d consider, but thought I’d throw it out there
Interesting thought about Vandy.
100% won’t leave the SEC money, and they are a true southern school, but academics fit in much better in the ACC. Plus we’d get to go head to head with James Franklin.
SEC doesnt want another school from the same state, but I've never heard the ACC take that stand
I assume $$ may be the reason USC wouldnt leave, but a revamped ACC may bring more bargaining power
SC and Clemson will never be in the same conference
Good ol boy network will assure that.
Well if you're really dreaming...
I’d say UConn and PSU. FSU gets another football power in the conference, which helps all of us really, and the bball schools get to add another blueblood. In reality I think PSU is a pipe-dream, but you asked for the optimal…
Can you imagine a conference with Dook, UNC, UMD, ‘Cuse, UConn, and Pitt? That’s 8 of the last 11 Natty’s right there.
Tag Team - Navy Football and Villanova BBall
For scheduling purposes, I know we need 16 teams. If would be ideal if we could combine Nova basketball and Navy football.
ND is a perfect fit
Geographically not the best but they are 530 miles from CP (Miami is 600ish)
Academically – no brainer
Financially – no brainer
Football – FSU would love that
Basketball – good without being a super power, good for us
Independants will not be able to survive the super conference movement because with 16 teams you most likely have to add an inconference game and lose a out of conference. ACC or Big Ten are best fir for them… Obviously b1g makes most sense but I would prefer them over UConn or Rutgers all day
Miami is actually
about 1000+ miles away from CP.
about 1,070 according to google maps
about 980 as the bird flies
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
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by John Stephens on Sep 19, 2011 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Hard call
Any good schools with simlar academic standings/some football prestige available? Uconn barely counts, and we’d need another team if we took them. Louisville, WVU and USF are not ACC caliber in academics.
by bsabbathforever on Sep 19, 2011 11:48 AM EDT reply actions
Louisville and West Virginia
Why is everyone hating on West Virginia? Up until the early-90’s Maryland’s academics weren’t anything to write home about either. Their basketball and football teams are top-notch and they have great fans (just tailgated with some Saturday). The MD/West Virginia rivalry is a lot more fun in football than just about anyone else Maryland plays. It would add a lot of spice to ACC football.
they already are rivals with VTech and Pitt
and they will be with uva and FSU. Wvu makes the most sense.
by MurlandTerps on Sep 19, 2011 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
So you're saying
that WVUs academics are 20 years behind UMDs? I think that sums it up right there.
Not to mention, it creates an unfair advantage if the admission’s standards of ONE school are so out of whack with the other members.
by wittcap79 on Sep 19, 2011 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
We have lost kids
to VA Tech on that deal for years. And how does that argument work if you are wanting a power conference that challenges for Nattys every year? So we have teams that lose out to SEC schools or Pac 12 schools or Big Ten schools, but we have more intelligent kids. Come on now
by kaptainterp on Sep 19, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
It would be a nice argument if the PAC-12 and B1G actually had lax standards, but they really don’t, save for a few outliers. Sure, if you can spell your name you can get into an SEC school, but that doesn’t mean you’re uber-competitive, there are plenty of middling SEC schools that only get pub when they play one of the giants.
And as much as I despise VT, they’re academics aren’t WVU bad…and it’s not even close.
Oh and for the record
I don’t give a sh!t if the ACC picked up WVU. It’d be good for football and the renegotiating of the TV deal. I’m just saying that some of the ACC bluebloods are generally against “lowering” their standards they arbitrarily seem to impose on the member schools.
It’s just the way it is, I don’t really care one way or another.
Yeah the same "blueblood" hicks that look down on Maryland?
But need the fact that we’re in a hugely populated area? Who cares what they think? Their fans are almost as boring and vanilla as their football teams. Trips to Morgantown to tailgate and watch games beat trips to anywhere else we play.
UNC/Duke/NC State and Wake can suck it.
The problem I have with it has little to do w/ the academics of the institution
It’s their admissions standards for athletes. They’re lower than the ACC’s. So either they A) raise them and lose the comparative advantage that has helped them land recruits in the past, or B) keep them the same and then compete at an unfair advantage. Lose-lose.
And besides, I don’t think he’s saying you’re wrong, but just that the people who make the decisions think you’re wrong. You can say “Tobacco Road can suck it” but Tobacco Road is still more than 1/4 of the conference.
Um, what?
Facts:
Duke lessens academic standards for athletes.
FSU has no standards for anything except good looking women.
Miami-Obviously they keep a close eye on what the football team is doing.
UNC-Obviously the football team is in good hands.
Wake-Does Wake have a football team?
NC State-Being in a 1975 time machine induced dream state regarding your sports teams doesn’t make them good
We are competing with these teams (WVA, Louisville etc) for recruits ANYWAY. Might as well have their fans and good team in the ACC so it stays alive and prospers.
If Maryland wants to compete, then give Edall and Turge some more “passes” for marginal students. Problem solved.
Yep, Duke lessens their otherwise Ivy League standards for athletes. No duh. If they didn’t, no one could get in. But their lowered standards aren’t as bad as WVU’s. And FSU and Miami are lax but not half as bad as WVU. Your other “facts” are irrelevant to what we’re discussing.
And ACC teams compete with them for recruits, yes, but ACC teams don’t play them every year and they don’t compete with ACC teams for BCS bids.
Wait so you say WVU doesn't fit in with Maryland or the ACC culturally?
Do we not both burn couches? Do we not have rabid fanbases? Close together geographically? However I doubt WVU fans drop F bombs nearly as much as Maryland fans. I’ll give you that.
Also I cannot imagine the average WVU fan is any less country than the avg North/South Carolinian or VA Tech fan for that matter. And I’ve seen many Fla State fans, no difference from WVU fans.
If all the ACC has is a self-granted academic superiority complex, its doesn’t have much.
WVU's acceptance rate
is like 97%.
To think that they are similar in any sense with Duke/Wake/BC/UVA other than the fact that all have competitive sports programs is misguided.
Realistically, there are tiers in terms of academics within the conference, but WVU isn’t good enough athletically for the ACC to turn a blind eye to the horrible excuse it is for “higher education.”
Again I'll just ask the following
Is the ACC becoming a superconference for anything regarding academics? Obviously not. It is to make more money in mens football and remain viable as a major sports conference. Nothing more and nothing less.
To somehow equate this pursuit to anything regarding academics is so insanely ridiculous its almost laughable.
No, but the school's academic reputation has an effect on its culture
Which is why it’s ridiculous to compare WVU fans to UNC fans. And actually, most conferences do have something in their mission statements about academics. Remember, university presidents, not ADs, vote on this.
But you continue to misunderstand what people are saying about their academics. It has two effects: a cultural one, alluded to earlier; and a practical one, which we’ve also said before. It has nothing to do with an “Oh, they’re not good enough for us” attitude – I have doubts about their cultural fit with the UNCs, Dukes, and UVAs academically (not to mention the fact that they’re all rural, whereas schools like Maryland, BC, and Miami draw their fanbases primarily from cities) and I have concerns about their either retaining or losing their unfair advantage.
Hear Hear!..
And they are about an hour from Pittsburg and Three from us. Football is good, basketball is good, Rabid fan base. Backyard brawl stays intact. Only an 1/2 hour from the Western MD Line.
by kaptainterp on Sep 19, 2011 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Agree 100%
I don’t understand the disdain for WVU either. They are such a natural rival for MD, UVA, VT and Pitt, their fans are rabid, their basketball and football programs are nationally relevant, and geographically they’re an obvious fit. So their admission standards and academic reputation are not as strong as the remainder of the ACC. Why does that matter? Seriously, I keep hearing that academic compatibility is so vital, but why? Is UMD’s academic standing improved because we happen to be in the same athletic conference as Duke? Would the ACC brand really suffer if WVU were admitted?
PSU
In a dream scenario, (along with UConn, which appears to virtually be a lock at this point), I think Penn St. would make a great addition. A great football tradition would clearly bring a lot to the table, and they’re already in the basement for basketball in the Big East so they’re not losing much there. I think they’d bring the best cultural fit to the ACC as well- PSU is clearly an East Coast school with solid academics. I think they could create some great rivalries as well- Maryland and Pitt stand out to me. Schools like Nova and Georgetown would be great for basketball, but this conference needs some more football power- not some division I-AA program.
Penn State and Notre Dame
I think you’re kidding yourself if you say you wouldn’t want the next two to be Penn State and Notre Dame. It would be epic. But I sincerely doubt we get both and an extreme outside shot of even one.
But I go with PSU, ND, Louisville, UConn, and then maybe start going with the bball only and football only schools like Nova and Navy. I do not want Rutgers at all, they bring absolutely nothing.
by FeartheTurtle2002 on Sep 19, 2011 11:59 AM EDT reply actions
Also add
East Carolina to the end of that list. I know that they aren’t particularly strong in any area yet, and only add to the Carolina bias, but I think in a stronger conference with more money, they could really be at least better than average, especially in football. They have an extremely passionate fan base from what I can see.
by FeartheTurtle2002 on Sep 19, 2011 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
We already have Girls from NY/NJ
So why else would we need them?
I mean
instead of just watching maryland and then being bored with the rest of the games
by MurlandTerps on Sep 19, 2011 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
why is a prominent school like TEMPLE not in the running?
a SUPER huge killer market.
east coast.
mid northern location.
big name school.
budding basketball and football among other things.
culture is fine.
i don’t get that….
I would love Temple if
they could somehow improve their football program. They fit perfectly except for the fact that their football team was kicked out of the Big East because their attendance was so poor. I’m not sure the ACC would take on a school that can’t even garner enough fan support to stay in the Big East for football.
and lets go to Bentleys...
by johnnyrobs13 on Sep 19, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Ah, forgot to throw in Temple
I mentioned them earlier, forgot them in this piece. Attendance is the killer, as johnnyrobs mentioned. They get good basketball numbers, but they play in the Linc for football and it’s always empty.
There's no reason
to go after Temple when you could add Villanova instead. Football wise, neither team is going to bring anything to the table. Nova is on their way to becoming 1A (FBS), and Temple is a middling football program in a middling football conference. Basketball, Villanova kills it in that market. They sell out the 76ers stadium (forgetting the name..) on a decent basis. Academically, Nova matches up better and they could bring another non-football school with great basketball and academics in G’Town.
In all likelihood, its really just down to Uconn and Rutgers/Louisville.
In all likelihood, its really just down to Uconn and Rutgers/Louisville.
If it’s b/w Rutgers and L’ville…bring me Pitino all day, every day! Of course, you still have that pesky academics thing going on, #164. Isn’t that right, settleten? ;)
I'm with you
but I think the ACC is going to go for the east coast thing and push for Rutgers. They’re the missing market link between Maryland and BC/Syracuse/UConn.
It gives the ACC a pretty good stronghold on NC up through Boston with ties down to Atlanta, and Florida and west out to the Pittsburgh area.
Those rankings are worthless anyway
Besides are we talking football and basketball or the frigging spelling bee?
By the same argument, why did Duke play Alabama in football? Obviously it didn’t matter then. Lets bring in JHU and Carnegie Mellon then. That would really be fun to watch.
Maybe I’m the only person who could care less if a nose guard is a physics major, but I doubt it.
I recommend you talk to the ACC Presidents and AD’s then. Seems like something you need to get off your chest. There is an “academic standard” reality here, and as I said before, I could honestly care less. But I’m not the one you need to convince. I’m just stating the REALITY OF THE FREAKIN’ SITUATION. You can wish in one hand and sh!t in the other, tell me which one fills up first.
So we're going to become the first football superconference
to maintain ACC academic superiority standards? I don’t doubt that the stuffed shirts will back your argument, but that doesn’t make your argument any less inane.
The ACC is doing this to make money and maintain themselves as a going concern as any such organization does. I am simply arguing that WVU would make that organization stronger than Rutger or UConn.
by settleten on Sep 19, 2011 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Seriously...
How many GD times do I have to say, that I, Matt, personally don’t give a shit about a school’s academics in regards to their athletic department. What I’m saying is that the ‘powers that be’ DO, IN FACT, GIVE A SHIT, or at the least, LIKE TO PRETEND THEY DO.
Maybe if you would, ya know, read the posts you’d catch on.
exactly
they DO care – no pretending on their part.
"A new era has dawned in Maryland Athletics..."
by bball purist on Sep 20, 2011 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Just like the Phillies filling the Nats stadium
We can go there and get good seats
by PaTerp on Sep 19, 2011 3:51 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You could argue with Temple's academics as well ...
since everyone keeps harping on the academic strings. Temple is #132, according to USNWR. So, good market potential but poor sports following and not-so-stellar academics. Originally, I thought Temple would be a good idea, but I am not so sure now.
WVU & UCONN or WVU & Louisville
And knock it off with academics garbage lol…kidding
But seriously though??? FSU is as big of a party screw off school as you can get in the nation….Just sayin…….
Throw another school out there….what about Kentucky???
+
Miami and goody goody wine and cheese UNC aren’t exactly running clean programs….When is the last time WVU has been in a cheating scandal??
by Terp_Nation on Sep 19, 2011 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
NO to UConn
the ACC should go after Texas Christian and possibly Houston. You get the Dallas Ft Worth, and Houston TV markets. Houston has basketball tradition, and the ACC gets a strongly desired foothold in the Texas recruiting market. It helps the big football powers and gives them a strong reason to STAY in the ACC and not leave for the SEC. IF we lose FSU to the SEC the ACC needs to add another Florida school to keep it’s presence strong in that state. USF is the best choice. Tampa St Pete Clearwater TV market and HUGE undergraduate population means a bright future. If we don’t lose FSU, add Rutgers for NYC tv market and TCU for recruiting and tv market and keep Houston as a BFF in case of another school being poached.
Houston is a dump
I’m all about Dallas/Ft. W though.
by Terp_Nation on Sep 19, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
You've obviously never been to either.
I’m in Houston right now, and this place is pretty happening. Dallas is much more of a “dump”, imo. And I’m a Cowboys fan.
by 1 proud terp on Sep 19, 2011 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
hmm maybe I'm only thinking of the restaurant Houston's...
but anyone Ive talked to from Texas, or has visited, normally praises the city of Houston and says Dallas is meh… now i have not met anyone from dallas also
Save the Bay
by NattyBoAndOldBay on Sep 19, 2011 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Why not ND to the B1G for
PSU to the ACC. Makes sense to me. If ND is going to join any conference it is going to be the B1G. So let us have PSU and add ND to the B1G
PSU
would be incredibly incredibly incredibly dumb to leave the Big Ten after they add Notre Dame. ND generates so much money right now that they can afford to be independent in football. What school in the country wouldn’t want a piece of that pie?
better still.... go 20 DEEP
the acc should make themselves the mega conference since they started it.
financially they only win.
get syracuse and pitt as is already going to happen.
then uconn and rutgers which is moving towards happening.
and finish it off with temple and penn state that could easily happen.
thats a win-win-win right?¿?
PSU
is not leaving the Big 10/12. Notre Dame is not giving the gift of it’s football revenue to anyone. No SEC school is gonna leave that deal or that tradition rich conference for the ACC. WVU is only sensible geographically. The state has few recruit for other, the tv market is small and will not grow.
UConn will NEVER be a football power, and is likely to become the new Duke of ACC football. The ACC should not add half/half solutions like Navy/Nova – that has proved harmful to the Big East. Temple is being ignored because it is tiny, and does not draw ratings in Philly.
... not me?
I think we have an imposter.
I don’t live in Louisville per se, actually in Indiana right across the river.
You have a doppleganger
Even though I dont know the definition of doppleganger
by word2bigbird on Sep 19, 2011 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you work in L'ville?
I hear that the commute to/from Jeffersonville is a bitch right now due to the bridge closure. My apologies if you have to deal with that.
by Timothy Winters on Sep 20, 2011 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
I work in Indiana, thankfully
But yeah, the Sherman-Minton closing is a bitch if I ever try to get downtown. The bridge system in L’ville is horribly screwed.
PSU and UCon
I doubt PSU would do it, but worth asking.
No to Rutgers
I hate how a big part of appeal for Rutgers is the NYC market. They potentially could bring in a lot of viewers if they ever win consistently, but they don’t. Most people in the NY/NJ area don’t really care about Rutgers athletics since most are transplants from other schools. If you look at the bowl game ratings over the years we bring in more viewers from a smaller market. Rutgers bball is worthless and the only time their football was any good was when a little player named Ray Rice was tearing it up for them a couple years ago.
I live in NJ
and Rutgers essentially dominates what people talk about college football wise. Especially going back a few years ago, this state was incredibly supportive.
I also live in NJ
In East Brunswick, in fact, right down the street from Rutgers. There was a period of 2-3 years where people cared, but now people really don’t again. Basketball has seen renewed interest due to the hiring the new coach and the focus on recruiting, but Rutgers is still a while away from “dominating what people talk about college football wise”. I love NJ and would love to have that connection to the ACC, but Rutgers isn’t going to bring that to the conference.
Just for everyone’s information, approximately 24% of high school graduates leave NJ each year to go to other schools, the highest percentage in the country. So whether that’s PSU, UMD, UDel, or any of the other myriad options they pick, it does create an area that has very disjointed football allegiances…
I much much prefer this ...
FINAL STANDINGS 1971
-————————-
ACC ALL ACC
Reg Seas Games All
N. Carolina 11-3 .786 26-6 .813
S. Carolina 10-4 .714 23-6 .793
Duke 9-5 .643 20-10 .667
Wake Forest 7-7 .500 16-10 .615
Virginia 6-8 .429 15-11 .577
Maryland 5-9 .357 14-12 .538
N.C. State 5-9 .357 13-14 .481
Clemson 3-11 .214 9-17 .346
-———————————————————
Total 136-86 .613
said that Nova just applied for ACC membership. I have ZERO interest in Nova. Their football is not ACC quality.
Please dont bring up Raylew52 like he knows what the hell he is talking about. That kid throws darts at a dartboard blindly hoping one will stick so he could say I told you I would hit the board. "L7 WEENIE"
by Charlotte NC Terp on Sep 19, 2011 1:30 PM EDT reply actions
Absolutely
They’ve been ducking us for years. Hope that the BEast crumbles around them and hangs them out to dry.
How would the realignment go with 16 teams?
North
Syracuse, Boston College, UConn, Rutgers
Central
Maryland, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Pitt
etc. etc.
What about???
Army/ Navy…..Richmond/Delaware/Nova
I mean honestly the 2 IDEAL teams for 15 & 16 would be South Carolina & Penn State if the football side needed some more beef but thats not happening. There arent any more football juggernauts on the Atlantic Seaboard so the ACC just may have to swallow their pride and take solid bball/academics schools and go from there.
If 4 Superconferences are made, then I guarantee you the BCS is gonna give each conference 2 Automatic Qualifiers and add 1 more BCS game (Cotton Bowl) and hopefully include the PLUS1.
ACC conf champ gets automatic to Orange Bowl and runner up or 2nd best gets the AT-LARGE to the Sugar Bowl to play SEC #1/2.
SC
No chance they leave the SEC. They would leave way too much money on the table. The SEC is a money machine (insert recruiting joke here).
How about
Penn State Football and Navy Basketball (since according to Penn State turned Navy coach, Navy BBall a better program)
I like Turtles!
Follow @RedTerrapin
Uconn and Penn State.
Uconn and Penn State. Both are decent academically. One is a natonal basketball power and the other is a national football power. Plus they fit pretty well geographically.
I hate to even add this but
don’t other team sports play into these decisions. I realize football and basketball are the moneymakers but I would think UCONN women basketball is very profitable. Since soccer and lacrosse are growing sports in the US, which of these schools have good programs for those sports?
No, not really
I’m excited about Pitt because they have wrestling, but I’m sure that was exactly 0% of the reason UMd supported Pitt being admitted.
This is a MBB and FB decision alone. To quote Metallica…Nothing Else Matters.
"Complacency is your demise." - Kerry King
Penn State and Notre Dame... crazy BUT
Penn state wanted to be apart of the east coast before and Notre Dame has all other sports in the Big East any ways and will need to protect that. I think the B1G ends up taking Rutgers to fill PennSt’s spot… and they would like that deal bc they expand east and gobble up a huge market. Then the B1G eventually grabs UConn and Mizzu
Save the Bay
by NattyBoAndOldBay on Sep 19, 2011 2:46 PM EDT reply actions
Something like 25%
of Terps are from NJ/NY. No reason to make it about keeping a state out. If you want to say no to Rutgers, say that. Don’t lump everyone from NJ in with Rutgers students.
yea im frm nj
but i say no to Rutgers as well. 1st two teams have to be Uconn then Penn St. with Rutgers the 3rd option
Sorry if I offended with my little joke
I made many friends from NY/NJ in my time at UMD. I thought that they would approve.
Not offended
Just saying. Its a good way to alienate a lot of us from Jersey who would have otherwise agreed with your intention. A lot of us came to MD to avoid the foulness of RU haha.
I’d actually rather add G’Town/Villanova than the UConn/Rutgers combo. It would be fun to watch Cal try to sell recruits on playing against Marquette, Providence, and Rutgers
I'm down with this
’d actually rather add G’Town/Villanova than the UConn/Rutgers combo.
And keep football at 14.
Not happening...and correctly so
Add members that play basketball but not I-A football, and you’re beginning to devolve the ACC into the Big East. And who wants that to happen? Football is what drives this, no matter how ridiculously basketball-centric many of you happen to be.
I’d rather have Temple than Villanova, anyway. It’s been stunted by the Big East for decades, only getting for a few years as a football adjunct member. I’m not saying Temple is a sleeping giant, but as an ACC member it could finally fulfill is potential and be competitive. Moreover, it gives you the Philadelphia market.
As for #16, Rutgers. Let Connecticut and its obnoxious fan base twist in the wind and ultimately be relegated to the conference of misfit toys (the Big East/Big 12 remnants).
New subject - UNC just posted it's self imposed sanctions
The one that stuck out to me is that the football program will lose 3 scholarships a year until 2015. Didn’t we lose 3 scholarships for poor academics? UNC had NINE MAJOR VIOLATIONS. I’m just curious if anyone else feels like this is a joke and if the NCAA will go ahead and approve these self imposed sanctions?
I'm always amused when schools self impose sanctions
Imagine a child saying, "okay I know I threw the ball and smashed a window, I’ll put myself in time out for 20 minutes.
I like Turtles!
Follow @RedTerrapin
by RedTurtle on Sep 19, 2011 3:47 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I need to get off of TT
Bear Grylls’ constant glare of disapproval is unnerving me. I’m just not man enough for this.
by NAmstrong on Sep 19, 2011 3:46 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
HONESTLY
I would just keep it at 14 teams for football. There is no other school on this seaboard that screams out thats not already in the B1G (Penn St) or SEC (USC).
And besides if the ACC went to 16, all teams would have to eliminate 2 Non Conference game (sorry Temple/ND) just to add 2 more conference opponents. With a 14 league schedule a 8 game conf reg season is workable
I would add 16 to the bball side which would be G’Town (DC Market) and UCONN. That would be the kiss of death to the Big Least.
Actually, we'd only lose one non-conference game a year in football
and I for one would like to BCS teams stop scheduling two FCS teams each year. You want to get respect as a program, you got to earn it. And you earn it by playing (and beating) quality opponents.
12 game season with a 16-team ACC could look like this:
- 7 games in your division
- 2 games against teams from the other division (rotating which teams every two years to allow a home and away game in consecutive years. Rotate through all 8 teams every 8 years, kinda stinks, but whatcha gonna do?)
- 1 game against a traditional “rival” (Pitt gets WVU, we can either play WVU or Navy, or (dare I say it?) Penn State)
- 1 game against another BCS team (Oregon for the “battle of the uni’s” anyone?)
- 1 obligatory FCS “chance to pat your stats” game
Voila, 12 games, with 3 against non-conference opponents
Most schools
only have 1 FCS game. I think only 1 FCS game counts towards your standings. You are confusing mid major teams like Temple with FCS teams like Towson.
Only 16 team Conference
should be SEC and the only reason is becuase they HAVE to take along Texas Tech and Ok St. Other it would just be OU and UT at 14. It looks like each conference will go only to 14
SEC- TAMU & Mizzou/WVU
B1G-ND & Mizzou/Rutgers
assuming you meant Pac-16...
I think you’re right about the SEC and B1G staying at 14 teams and what will be the Pac-16… but the ACC does has some serious options to become 16 as well or more in basketball if it really wanted to. Now it’s a reach but potentially the ACC could basically monopolize east coast basketball if it convinced other schools to join just for that sport… and there may be schools who think that may be a good idea or their only option
Save the Bay
by NattyBoAndOldBay on Sep 19, 2011 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
The only logical reason for expansion ...
… is if the schools that are added as 15th and 16th members add a lot to the conference.
Moving from 12 to 14 by adding Syracuse and Pitt made sense for several reasons:
- addition of new markets (Pennsylvania and New York)
- excellent basketball traditions, solidifying the ACC as the elite eastern basketball conference
- strong football traditions for both schools
- strong academic traditions, including existing ties with ACC schools
- decreasing the likelihood of existing members leaving for other conferences
While adding two teams makes the “slice of the pie” smaller for each individual ACC school, the reasons for adding these two were well worth it, and will probably increase the payouts per school anyway (despite the percentage decrease per school).
So what does moving from 14 to 16 teams do for the ACC, other than decrease the percentage per school of the payments from TV contracts?
It depends on which schools are added. I’m not convinced Rutgers and UConn provide enough benefits to make their addition worth considering. I’m not even sure UConn would be approved anyway – BC would not want them in, and other schools may have reservations as well.
If it was Penn State and Notre Dame that were being considered, I’d say it would definitely be worth it. Notre Dame would solidify the NYC market in a way neither Rutgers nor Syracuse nor UConn can, and Penn State (while still an incredible longshot to leave the Big Ten) has a history of competition with Maryland, Pitt, and Syracuse.
Err … PSU has a history of playing Maryland … which really hasn’t provided any competition for them … anyway …
While I’d love to add Penn State, I know it’s a longshot. But consider the following:
Because of the history between the schools, the addition of Syracuse and Pitt makes the ACC more attractive to Penn State.
It’s something to dream about, anyway.
I agree that we should give PSU a shot. Adding them would be great for the ACC.
It isn’t likely they will come. I think the B1G TV contract share per school is about 22M and I don’t know if that includes revenue from the B1G network. The ACC per school share is about 10M and we don’t have a network. I know the ACC will be renegotiating their TV contract and the PAC 12 did well with their recent renegotiation, so maybe we will be able to make a much better offer. Still, it is unlikely that we can be financially competitive. Even if adding PSU enabled the ACC to demand sunstantially more for a TV contract, we couldn’t offer PSU a bigger share than other schools to get them to join. All ACC members get an equal share of the revenues and Swofford said that they won’t compromise on that point. I like that about the ACC.
However, this is a rapidly changing situation and every school is trying to anticipate the changes and put themselves is the best possible position. At some point the NCAA is going to lose control of the basketball tournament just as they’ve lost control of the football playoffs. Then, the total TV revenues for football and basketball for the ACC should be very competitive. I know smacks of greed but I think its the future.
Every school in the ACC sells
out Bball, even FSU is coming close. The present Need is for Football sellouts. Football drives TV ratings which drive Conference TV contracts, thus income. Any new team admitted to the ACC should help to sellout stadiums. Penn St sells out and travels to help others sellout. Notre Dame sells out and travels to help others sellout. West Va sells out and travels to help others sellout also. Within the ACC, Clemson travels well, NC st travels a little, UNC travels a little. FSU travels a little. Va Tech travels well, and now Syr used to travel well, Pitt used to travel a little too. WF, Duke, Miami, Va don’t travel well. GT couldn’t even come close to selling their allotment to the Orange bowl 2 years ago and also hardly travels. BC will travel at times. U Conn may travel a little to the Northeast. Because several schools rarely fill their own stadiums, its important that any new schools help in this regard. For example WF drew 29k last sat; Miami drew 67k last sat. in their Home opener. Duke drew 32k in their opener and then 25k the next week against #6 Stanford. FSU and Clemson each soldout at over 82k each. UNC and NC St each drew over 54k 40 minutes away from each other. Va Tech also sold out at over 66k. BC drew only 38k and GT drew a little over 41k, both under capacity. This is why its important to carefully chose each new school we admit.
Sleeping on South Florida
Ben, you are sleeping on USF. If you look at their current football profile, they are very similar to Maryland. Recruiting is very different since their bread-and-butter is in-state recruiting- and this is despite Florida, FSU, and Miami being there (FL is SO rich in football talent to spread around). We all know about Maryland’s in-state woes despite also having a rich area to work in also.
The on-field results are very similar between USF and Maryland. We even play very similar opponents and end up at similar bowls from year-to-year.
Also, comparing USF to UCF just doesn’t fly. Anyone in the Florida big 3 would tell you that they’d think twice about scheduling USF but UCF doesn’t have the same fear factor yet. USF plays in an NFL stadium with club level access(which I’ve enjoyed during a few games), UCF plays in a stadium with aluminum risers- a supersized high-school stadium.
I think everyone needs to look at the conference expansion earthquake that is happening right now through the football prism. Money is going to be distributed to the member schools through football more than basketball. So as much as the ACC is a basketball conference, their expansion plan decisions should be weighted towards football.
by Timothy Winters on Sep 20, 2011 11:34 AM EDT reply actions
That's fair, but it doesn't change the fact that USF brings nothing except bring a solid football program.
We already have the entire state of Florida and I doubt USF as a dept. makes enough money to add to the pie.
USF revenue
Good point. FSU and Miami do take care of all of Florida’s markets. Clearly USF academics are not up to par, either. I was actually curious to see what USF and other schools actually do bring in… per 2007-08 figures they rank #66th (7th in the Big East) at almost $35 million annually. The Big East is a relatively poor conference, as evidenced by their dearth of powerhouse football programs. The top Big East school was UConn at #39, $55 million. This compares to MD which was ranked at #41, $54 million and #7 in the ACC.
Syracuse and Pitt actually brought in less revenue that year than some other Big East schools in the discussion such as UConn, WVU, and Rutgers.
I couldn’t easily find more up-to-date info, but here’s the chart I found:
by Timothy Winters on Sep 21, 2011 10:38 AM EDT reply actions
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