Why Maryland and Pittsburgh Should be Rivals
by Ben Goldstein on Sep 18, 2011 7:03 PM EDT
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By now you’ve all heard the news that Pittsburgh and Syracuse will be joining the Atlantic Coast Conference.
This makes sense on a lot of levels for the ACC:
1. Both schools fit academically with the standards of the conference.
2. If you’re trying to strike a balance with schools that have excellent basketball (the ACC’s bread and butter) and solid football programs, you can’t do too much better than Pitt and Syracuse.
3. Adding the markets of Pennsylvania and New York helps to solidify a continuous ACC presence along the eastern seaboard.
All that is important for both Maryland and the ACC, but what has me most excited about the additions of Pittsburgh and Syracuse is the opportunity to start a real, hated-filled rivalry with another team from the city of Pittsburgh.
The rivalry seems almost natural, doesn’t it? Baltimore fans hate Pittsburgh because of the Steelers. D.C. fans (and Baltimore to some extent) hate the Pittsburgh Penguins. It’s a city whose two most successful sports franchises have intense rivalries with the two most (recently) successful sports teams in Baltimore and D.C.
Add in the fact that Maryland and Pennsylvania border each other, and that each school recruits in the other’s territory, and I think there’s some real potential here.
The hold up, of course, is that Pitt already has a rivalry with West Virginia. But that may become less intense if the two schools are no longer in the same conference, and the fact that Maryland and Pittsburgh are so close academically (#55 for UMD, #58 for Pitt) compared to WVU (#164) has to count for something, right?
Like all rivalries, this will take some time to grow and develop. But I think the potential is definitely there. Is anybody else down for a rivalry with Pittsburgh?
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Pitt-WVU never seemed quite as intense in basketball as in football
I could see a MD-Pitt basketball rivalry, especially if theres a schedule that has them playing twice a year, developing quickly. Football would probably lag behind.
I'm not sure that Pitt-UMD will get a chance to develop that rivalry
I haven’t seen any proposals or ideas for a basketball schedule for a 14-team conference. I don’t have any idea what the chances are for UMD and Pitt to play twice each year. For football, I believe that Pitt will be put in the Coastal and Syracuse in the Atlantic. The reason is that conference officials are indicating a willingness to add two more teams. If we have 16 teams, I think UNC and Duke will try to get two basketball divisions that will ensure they are the dominant bball teams in one of those divisions and play each other year twice a year. I wouldn’t be surprised if the divisions are same as those for football. So, if we added UConn and Rutgers as 15 and 16, I think UConn would go to the Atlantic and Rutgers to the Coastal. Note that this is pure speculation on my part.
As far as a 14-team basketball schedule ...
… FYI, I wrote an article about several possibilities for a basketball schedule for a 14-team conference. It’s posted here:
and of course, the pirates and orioles battle for the first pick in the draft every year
MASN Announcer: "Ususally they have what they call here 'the privilege,' and that's what bobby cox calls it when he let's the veteran guys swing away on 3-0. This is not such a hitter."
Jason Heyward: Single up the middle, ballgame.
by telemakhos on Sep 18, 2011 7:10 PM EDT reply actions 7 recs
orioles-pirates rivalry go way back.
nats dont belong in this conversation
by (adm)iregary on Sep 18, 2011 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions
You're reaching.
Sure, my Nats aren’t pennant material yet, but they are a bound and a leap ahead of the os towards the WC. 2013 will be a HUGE year for them. I don’t think they will see pick #1 again for 10+ years, and hopefully far longer.
As loathe as Baltimoreans are to admit it
The Steelers’ primary rival is and always will be the Browns, not the Ravens. If they were all hovering around 8 – 8 instead of Cleveland doing things like employing Dick Jauron, we would see that. The DC / PIT hockey rivalry is totally manufactured by the media and won’t last past this generation of teams, kind of like Patriots / Colts. I just can’t see a Maryland / Pitt rivalry really taking off in the sense of a true rivalry. Pittsburgh as a town is a lot closer to the Detroits / Clevelands of the world than it is to really get a rivalry going with Baltimore.
If it worked like that, then you’d see a conference pull teams from say, Dallas and New York City and try to generate a rivalry that way, but I’m not sure TCU and the Johnnies are capable of clicking like that.
Is Jerry Angelo fired yet?
The Caps and Pens have had a rivalry long before the days of Ovi and Crosby. The media might hype it up a ton, but thats just cause hockey needs that rivalry. There’s a real, long-term rivalry there.
by hockeyman33 on Sep 18, 2011 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I'd offer
That Boston-Montreal provides the rivalry hockey needs. The B’s and Habs hate each other enough for two rivalries. Of course, one team IS full of diving queens so…. ;)
Ha. Yeah, hockey needs all these rivalries. Otherwise they’d have nothing to show on nbc…
by hockeyman33 on Sep 18, 2011 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Versus is actually rebranding
in to the much more logically named NBC Sports, and should be a much more integrated part of NBC’s programming.
Right you are...
I lost much of my early teen years to thinking that each successive season was finally the year the Caps got past the Pens. I remember being so despondent after Nedved ended that 3OT game that I seriously thought about giving up on them altogether.
‘Contrairiwise,’ continued Tweedledee, ‘if it was so, it might
be; and if it were so, it would be: but as it isn’t, it ain’t. That’s
logic.’ — Through the Looking Glass, Lewis Carroll
by TerroristFistJab on Sep 19, 2011 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Don't remember the Patrick Division?
Capitals and Penguins are long time rivals, regardless of recent events.
They were division rivals from ’81 to ’92, prior to the nightmare creation of the Atlantic Division (and later the Southeast). From 1991 to 2001, Capitals and Penguins faced each other in the playoffs 7 times, with every single series going 6 games or more.
While the Penguins’ primary rival are indeed the Flyers, the Caps-Penguins rivalry is anything but manufactured.
what the hell are you talking about (Ravens/Steelers related)
Ravens-Steelers is way more of a rivalry than the Browns. Who has ever mentioned the Browns in relation to anything (in my lifetime)? Until you posted this, I forgot the Browns were a team. Ravens-Steelers is huge.
Also, geographical proximity is not the only factor in a rivalry. See Lakers-Celtics. It’s probably a pretty small factor, especially in today’s world of fast internet, fast cars and faster women. There’s really no reason we can’t rival up with Pitt, if things develop.
Muggsy -- 2,318 career NBA rebounds.
by Muggsy Bogues on Sep 18, 2011 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions
The Browns are the Steelers' historical rival
Though they stand to lose that if they keep sucking. If that happens, history will mean less and less and Baltimore will become the #1.
And I don’t think he was talking about geographical proximity. At least I interpreted it as the attitude of the city; Pittsburgh is historically a hard-working manufacturing town, like Detroit and Cleveland. But that itself won’t last past this generation, because they are definitely not a manufacturing town anymore.
historical rivalry = pre-1988
This rivalry is so old I had to wiki it. Apparently, since 1988 the Steelers are an overwhelming 29-8 against the Browns.
C’mon dude. Ravens-Steelers may be newer, but for several years has been one of the premier NFL rivalries.
Also, I don’t see too many differences between Baltimore/Cleveland/Detroit. They were all manufacturing and dirty when manufacturing still happened in the US.
Muggsy -- 2,318 career NBA rebounds.
by Muggsy Bogues on Sep 18, 2011 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions
agree
you all need to realize thats a rivalry that hasnt been intense since any of the current players got there. Secondly, when the browns moved to baltimore and became the ravens, that rivalry largely came with them, it just needed the spark of two good teams playing hard-nosed close games very often and you have one of the most aggressive rivalries in the history of the nfl (say what you want but we all know in 20-30 years its going to be looked back at as such)
by Turgeonator on Sep 18, 2011 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Didn't that Browns team
move to Baltimore?
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Follow @RedTerrapin
Exactly
which makes the Steelers-Ravens rivalry as old as 1988.
by kryptonianjorel on Sep 18, 2011 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Makes sense especially if WVU doesn't join the ACC
Syracuse will pair off with BC and Maryland will be the closest other ACC school. The pro rivalries could transfer over nicely to the college level
Cardiac Hill contributor
You have lost your mind..
Pitt v Maryland have nothing in common. More MDlanders go to Penn St. or WVU, or even UVa. Dude, you are reaching to justify a bad addition to the ACC. You now have two more faces at the table to feed and the pie will not get bigger. MD is breaking even in sports now, what happens when 2 more gravey holes belly up to the bar?
Dikaia Upotheke - Justice Our Foundation
You now have two more faces at the table to feed and the pie will not get bigger. MD is breaking even in sports now, what happens when 2 more gravey holes belly up to the bar?
What evidence at all do you have for this? At a minimum, theres a greater inventory of games.
Numbers
This blog has done a great job of explaining that the Terps are breaking-even in athletics in spite of basketball’s contributions. Pitt and Syracuse have similar profile with respect to f-ball and basketball attendance. In fact South Florida and WVA make more money from football due to their eyeballs in-state. Sure the extra game will help TV ratings in Western Pa and Central NY, but the real play was UCONN and Rutgers, they make $15M in TV/Radio revenue, while PITT and the ‘Cuse bring in about $8.5M.
Dikaia Upotheke - Justice Our Foundation
Dude, you are reaching to justify a bad addition to the ACC.
I think it was a good addition. Its not just about who the ACC added, its about the conference stability. The SEC and B1G aren’t going to come poach our schools now that its a 14 team conference with other schools seriously interested in joining. We’re essentially going to dissolve Big East football, and steal 2/3 of their top basketball programs. The ACC is going to be hands down the best basketball conference which will help boost revenues.
Its also about alternatives. What schools would have been a better fit for the ACC? Sure it would be ideal to grab Texas/Kansas, but its much less likely than Pitt/Cuse. Maryland/Pitt could become a rivalry. Its going to take time, but that’s how rivalries form.
Expansion
My affinity for hating all things Pittsburgh has nothing to do with justifying the decision to expand.
First off, you say that the pie isn’t getting any bigger, which is just entirely false. The ACC is adding two football programs, one of which consistently averages more fans at games than Maryland does. Basketball wise, Syracuse and Pitt are the 8th and 18th most valuable college basketball programs in the country according to Forbes. I don’t know how much the pie will be increasing, but it will certainly be increasing.
Most importantly, the ACC wouldn’t be making these moves if they didn’t make financial sense. Expansion is all about money, and the ACC is trying to secure its place at the table.
by Ben Goldstein on Sep 18, 2011 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Any chance Maryland-Cuse becomes a rivalry?
Two basketball programs nearly identical the last 20 years, I think this could be an interesting one.
agree 100%
Last time they met in basketball was 2004 in the NCAA tournament… a matchup between the previous two national champions. Cuse holds on 72-70 after Maryland comes back from 16 down. That game was ridiculous and can’t wait for an annual matchup and I think fans from both schools will quickly adopt this (not necessarily a hatred filled rivalry)
Save the Bay
by NattyBoAndOldBay on Sep 19, 2011 6:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Same here, not even sure why
Who knows how I’ll feel 15 years from now when a potential rivalry has had time to brew, but as of this point in time I don’t dislike them nearly enough to get hyped about them as a rival.
I am excited to get them in the ACC though.
by T Free on Sep 18, 2011 8:20 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
OK, really dumb question
I keep seeing where everyone says Syracuse brings in the NYC market, but geez, College Park is closer to NYC than Syracuse is. Is the ’Cuse really that big a deal in NYC where it will help generate revenue for the conference?
"Complacency is your demise." - Kerry King
MSG is there unofficial second home
a lot of NYC students go to Syracuse, theyve got a lot of support in that region
maybe 10 years from now, a rivalry
makes more sense to have a rivalry with Gtown as far as basketball goes
TV contract
I am sure both the bball and football will be bumped up. If we don’t have a clause in there about renegotiating a new deal if we expand we should fire all our legal representatives.
Duke's football program is worse than GTown's
by BeverlyHillsTerp on Sep 18, 2011 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions
The only way Duke's football program is worse than GTown's
is because Duke has one?
I like Turtles!
Follow @RedTerrapin
Im from the philly area so I wonder if ill start getting more acc games with Pitt joining?
TV will probably get worked out again so who knows but I’m really excited about this. Always wanted a PA school in the ACC. And ’Cuse is more basketball competition which is probably a good thing for the “new” terps.
Go Terps, Beat the Canes!
Welcome Shaq!
Thanks Gary!
Thanks Fridge!
See Ya Debbie!
Ooh good point!
I’m about an hour north….wonder if I’ll be able to see games on tv and not on a streaming feed. Interesting
Rivalry Game
Totally in agreement with Ben. Would love to see this become a rivalry game for the Terps. Seems like a natural extension of the Caps-Pens rivalry. All we need is Ovi in a Terps jersey pregame and we’d be good to go.
Seeing as how we have brought in so many international players
Number 8 might totally be down for that
Huge get
especially for basketball. Both are pretty consistently ranked. Tough to predict rivalries…too many intangibles.
We Still Need Two More Members
In the interest of local recruiting we need WVU to come into the conference. If we are losing recruits to WVU now with them being in the Big Least, what happens if and when they can start recruiting the area swinging the SEC flag. Let’s face it Pitt and Syracuse does not make ACC football anywhere near the power that the SEC is. If the SEC goes shopping in Morgantown it makes our recruiting that much tougher.
Academics
keep WVU out, and it’s not even close.
I like Turtles!
Follow @RedTerrapin
by RedTurtle on Sep 18, 2011 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agree
Plus, they don’t bring much to the table. The WV television market doesn’t even match Montgomery County.
Cuse not pitt
Cuse will be the our rival. Two very similar schools who have a very similar student base. Pro rivalries don’t carry over to college.
WVU IS the most TERIBLE ADITION EVER due to ACCademics
(Yes I know this is spelled wrong, however I bet any/all WVU alumni wouldn’t catch this)
by terpfan2011 on Sep 19, 2011 2:13 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Agree
I do NOT want WVU in the ACC. Though they’ve had some athletic sucecss, they do not match the academic profile of the ACC. The same goes for USF. Get Texas and UConn, or stay at 14. Leave WVU alone.
by bsabbathforever on Sep 19, 2011 8:54 AM EDT up reply actions
IDK if this was already discussed
But the one major positive out of this is that the ACC gets to renegotiate its TV contract with ESPN. Which hopefully means that the premiere bball conference will get (A) tons of money, and (B) much more exposure on national TV. Indirectly this means that more recruits will get to see the ACC which will hopefully gives us an advantage over these other scrub conferences.
Also, locally, Georgetown might be left in the dust which means local recruits will look more favorably to us (i.e., Nate Britt).
Greensboro NC
I’m just excited that after 2015 the ACC Tournament could be held in the GARDEN. So sick of home court advantage for the southern ACC.
Pitt
I just want a red and black shirt that says ‘Puck Fitt’
I love the Steelers and the Terps (but would love to have a shot at Pitt)
At least in my case, I’ve been a Maryland and Steelers fan since the early 70s. I graduated from Maryland in ‘87. That doesn’t mean a nice rivalry between Pitt and MD can’t emerge. Heck, both Pitt and ‘Cuse have killer basketball programs. I’m most excited to (hopefullly) see a shift in the balance of power in the ACC north away from NC.
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