We are what Gary makes us
by apoc987 on Feb 16, 2011 9:00 AM EST
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PrintI was just going to post this as a reply to someone else's comment but I feel like expressing my view of MD basketball.
I meant the title in a good way. It's well known Gary despises the whole recruiting scene and what a sham it has become. Handlers, kids who get pushed along academically, money, entitlement, etc. He simply won't go along with any of it.
I don't believe we're an elite team, but we're a team I'm proud to be associated with. And we are a good team, just one that can't seem to pull out those single digit games right now. I'm a die hard Gary fan if only for the fact that he doesn't run a shady program. If you want a dominant team that gets the one-and-done's every year and is always in the championship talks, then maybe this isn't your team. We aren't always going to be a great team, but Gary will always get the best out of his players. It's why we love MD whether you realize it or not. We're David where teams like Duke, UNC and the likes are Goliath. That's why it's so satisfying to beat them!
And it's not like Gary hasn't tried. Think about the recruits who either committed to MD or seemed locks and then suddenly disappeared. Terrence Ross, Gus Gilchrist, Lance Stephenson....and that's just the past few years. These kids obviously had grade issues to say the least and many even had ongoing legal issues. Gary's two favorite players from the past decade are Juan Dixon and Greivis Vasquez. Not highly touted recruits, but four year guys who became leaders on the floor and commanded the ball when the game was on the line. They worked hard beyond what was asked of them. Juan Dixon even had a key to Cole!
There's a story about how John Calipari flew down to N.C State a few years ago before Sidney Lowe took over to interview for the vacant basketball coaching position. He flew in on his private jet with his entourage to tour the campus. His official reason for not taking the position was he didn't want to play in a conference with high caliber teams like Duke and UNC. The unofficial reason was their academic standards for basketball players were far too high compared to Memphis and he couldn't get the recruits he wanted. Now I don't know how true the unofficial reason is but it seems plausible and absolutely is a reason why MD, along with many other programs, can't get certain recruits with academic problems. I'm just waiting for Breunig, Whittington, Judge, or someone else we're pursuing to suddenly drop off the recruiting map due to grades. And from what I hear, Whittington may be an issue. I guess we'll see.
Anyway, take this for what it's worth. Gary is a great sideline coach. I don't think it's that he "can't" recruit, but more that he isn't willing to deal with certain recruits who are often among the most highly regarded in the country.
I think some people also have an unrealistic view of our program. We aren't Duke, UNC, Kentucky, Kansas, Syracuse, UCLA. We do have a great program history with a HOF coach but we are not elite. Look at the top 20 recruits on ESPN for 2011: 4 for Kentucky, 2 for UNC, 2 for Syracuse, 1 for Duke, 1 for Texas, 1 for Memphis. Those programs are either elite or having shady academic standards or shady coaches (I think you can pick that one out). Now Virginia Tech does have one but he's a local kid and they got lucky that he wanted to stay close by. We will get top 100 recruits (Parker, Faust, Stoglin) but usually not the top guys. We have to get kids that fit our program. And I'll bet you like having Jordan Williams don't you?!
I'll leave you with this thought. Gary seems to despise entitlement. It goes against everything he stands for: blue collar, hard working, no complaining, earn your keep style of play and work ethic. If you're a top 10 or 20 or 30 recruit who gets national attention (games on ESPN, your own page on Rivals, ESPN, etc.), plays on a well known AAU team, gets free athletic gear, gets recruited by huge programs across the country, has a handler who basically acts as your agent, plays in the McDonald's All American game, and who knows what else. Do you think you might have a bit of an ego and a sense of entitlement? OF COURSE! Now there are some that don't fall into that category. From what I've read about Nick Faust, he seems like a genuinely good kid who just wants to work hard and win. But the majority seem to fall into the aforementioned category. Look at Mike Jones, great shooter (rated second behind LeBron James) but he basically refused to play defense. I'll take a full court player thank you.
I would like to be more competitive and I think Gary could do a bit more to recruit, but I'm happy with the way the program is run and I enjoy our scrappy style of play. Now if we can just pick up another big or two...
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Bottom Line
When you make two consecutive final fours, win a National Championship, and win an ACC Tournament, there should be plenty of solid players to chose from, especially when you’ve got two of the best basketball scenes in the country within an hour drive. Both B-More and DC are filled with basketball talent, but everyone else gets those guys. I’m not even talking about the one-and-dones. I’m talking about kids like Quinn Cook, Nolan Smith, and Ty Lawson. All these guys are 3-4 year players who lived 20 minutes away from campus, yet Gary can’t land a single one. Say whatever you want about honest recruiting, but plenty of schools avoid the sleazy methods of Calipari while also landing great players. Maryland isn’t one of them.
Local players don’t stay local. It’s hard to convince a highly touted prospect to stay near home for college. If you grew up ten minutes from UMD, would you want to go to school there regardless of whether you played basketball or not? Probably not. Look at Duke’s roster. Three kids are from NC. One is a transfer and one doesn’t play. The other is Ryan Kelly who was rated a 97 by ESPN in 2009. I’ll let you decide how to feel about that. The fact is it’s hard to land local talent. Ask Ralph.
The basketball recruiting world is more complicated than everyone wants to admit. I want good players too but if the kid doesn’t want to go to MD or doesn’t fit with Gary then he isn’t going to come here. Gary tells the kids straight up, ‘you will play IF you work hard and are good enough’ whereas other coaches will say, ‘oh yeah sure you definitely have a starting spot if you come here’.
And how do you know which schools are sleazy and which ones aren’t? UConn, Kentucky, Memphis, Tennessee are all known to be sleazy….usually due to the coach and not the school. Duke is a near Ivy school yet gets some of the best talent around consistently. You don’t find anything suspicious about that? Just because the joke of an organization called the NCAA hasn’t found any violations doesn’t mean there aren’t any.
Local Players Don't Stay Local?
Austin Freeman went to DeMatha, which is two miles down Rt. 1. He stayed local and went to Georgetown. Chris Wright, PG from St. John’s High School stayed local and went to Georgetown. Mikael Hopkins, DeMatha, is going to Georgetown. Roy Hibbert, another local talent, went to Georgetown. Looking outside the DMV: Johnny O’Bryant committed to LSU instead of here in order to be closer to home. That’s just to list a few recruits that we lost out on that also stayed close to home. Don’t tell me that local kids don’t stay local.
by KingFelix341 on Feb 16, 2011 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
GW DID get "plenty of solid players"
after he won the NCAA and ACC tourney, the problem is that those players weren’t as good as advertised (see Travis Garrison, Mike Jones).
You make my pee-pee maker t-t-tingle.
FWIW
I recently heard that it’s harder to get Basketball players into Maryland than Duke because Maryland doesn’t grant Academic waivers.
I like Turtles!
You heard that on a radio chat show
From a football guy on top of it. One who has no concrete evidence to back that up. Lets do this on that subject ok? I have a friend whos son went to MD on a lacrosse ride and he was given a hardship. Lacrosse,,,, Now I know all there ever was to know on that deal. Even was prevey to the paperwork. So until somone of authority from the school says that Maryland does not grant hardships on grades for anyone, I m gonna go with what I know, and it was within the last 3 years. On top of that I am told by the parent of that child that basketball and football have even more.
Can someone investigate this?
Once and for all. I would like to know the academic standards situation MD is operating under compared to the other ACC schools.
Not something
That the school wants to make public, or at least they have not for years and years.
by rvandegrift on Feb 16, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
I think people realize
That we are not, nor ever will be a Duke, UNC, Kentucky, etc.
However, based on our facilities, tradition, location, coach, uniforms, arena, etc., everyone on here feels that we should do a better job landing big time prospects. Im not talking about the top 10, one and done guys, but the guys in the 11-30 range, who will stay 2-3 years. Gary is a great coach, everyone around here knows that, he should not have too much trouble landing high 4 star recruits with an occasional 5 star.
People consistently bring up that Gary doesnt get the top guys because they want to leave the area and they have shady recruitments. Let me tell you something, Gary is not the only coach in the country that does things the right way. There are plenty of guys out there that don’t do shady recruitments, and still get top 15 classes. And if theyre aren’t, then I think Gary needs to start being shady. Because if literally everyone else is doing it, then we should be too. Its only cheating if you get caught, and there havent been too many people to get caught. Im not saying go all Calipari on these recruits, but do something different.
But we have
We have gotten these guys. It just so happens that they usually don’t work out or turn into role players rather than game changers. Travis Garrison, Mike Jones, John Gilchrist, Ekene Ibekwe, Sean Mosley, etc. More recently we’ve gone after some great players but they’ve gone elsewhere to a much less well known program like Terrence Ross and Lance Stephenson. That hints at some underlying problems.
Great fan post.
What I most strongly agree with is we are not Duke, UNC, KY or KS. MD does not have to be that good for me to enjoy being a Terp fan. If that is what you need to feel proud of your program, you probably need to be a fan of those programs.
Comparisons to teams like TX, MSU, Syr, OSU are fair. UConn, TN, WVU are not. We are often in the running for the same guys, but for whatever reason, have not closed the deal. I think the disruption caused by the loss of Patsos, Hahn and Dickerson has been largely responsible, and not some “laziness” on Gary’s part.
I will also say that if MD ever becomes one of those programs, it will be based in large part on what Gary did over the last 20 years. KS, KY and UNC took years to rise to that level and did it during a time when basketball was a very different game. Our next coach will be in an ideal spot to build further, but also have enormous shoes to fill.
As bad as we are playing right now, we have a program to be proud of. Last year was one of the more emotionally satisfying and heartbreaking experinces in MD basketball. If you can put that on the floor every few years, its great to be a Terp.
Yow
wanted to give Field Hockey money instead of paying our bball assistants who had just won a natty…I really dont like that woman…maybe breast cancer runs in the family cause she def gave it to maryland
by MurlandTerps on Feb 16, 2011 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
I hate to blame others,
but dammit, you wonder what things would have been like for the last 10 years without her.
You only have so much energy to spend and if you had to spend it fighting with her over getting a kid admitted, or responding to leaks from her office in the press, that’s less energy to focus someplace else.
maybe we aren't an elite team but
we can and should consistently be a top 25 team that makes the tournament every year. thats what we were in the past and there is no reason we cant be that now. it doesnt take top all american recruits to get there. gary has done it with his worst teams. given all of our resources and the fact that gary is one of the best player developing coaches. why is this not a reality?
by Luke Goldsborough on Feb 16, 2011 12:59 PM EST reply actions
sick and tired
The thing is no matter the talent on our team, we still have the change to win all but two games this year. You cant tell me that because we dont have 4 and 5 star recruits that litter our roster this is why we are losing.
If we would avoid the late runs toward the end of games that we have been prone to giving up and are able to cash in on easy opportunities like the layups and foul shooting early in the year, we wouldnt be having this conversation.
Its all about closing out games and this team does not have a upperclassment that take over for other teams to close out games.
by El Goodd Terps13 on Feb 16, 2011 1:19 PM EST reply actions
Good point
Agreed. We have lost 8 out of ten by single digits. That has little to do with talent and more to do with mental toughness.
I agree.
This team has been in position to win a lot of games and at crunch time they can’t put the ball in the hoop. I attribute that to the intangible “attitude of winning” that seems to be missing this year. The physical talent is on the floor, the right play was called, the shot was open and it spins out. That’s not a 4 or 5 star thing, it’s something else that is particular to this group and not a systemic problem.
I hate to say next year with so many games yet to play, but I think the team will have a very different feel and we will be able to forget this forgettable season.
Exactly. This isn’t about recruiting. If a few more of our shots had fallen and we would have pulled out a few more close games, we’d be having a great season and most of the detractors wouldn’t be saying a word. Any time something isn’t perfect, people call for someone’s head. Teams go through their ups and downs. We had a great season last year with a heartbreaking freak loss to end the season. Who would you rather have than Gary? Even if you want Gary gone, which is difficult to imagine, who the hell would you put in his place that wants to come here???
We’re not in the top 20 on KenPom for no reason. We ARE a good team. We’re just a good team for 35 minutes or so. It’s not like we’re getting blown out (minus the second Duke and first VT games). We just need to be mentally tough enough to pull through the last few minutes.
Exactly
Remember that this is the same team that could have beaten Pitt if free throws were made. Played competitively against (at the time) #1 Duke in Cam Indoors. And played 30 minutes of really good bball against Villanova at their house. I don’t want to say we are a bad team. We are just too inconsistent as a whole. especially Bowie, Tucker, and Mosley.
by nhlnflnba18414 on Feb 16, 2011 4:50 PM EST up reply actions
The difference between good players and great players is consistency
Obviously Tucker, Bowie and Mosley have a decent amount of talent. But the difference between average college players and good/great ones is not always physical ability. Its worth ethic, determination, mental toughness, intelligence, etc.
You think Juan Dixon, Lonny Baxter or Steve Blake were All Americans and some of our best players ever because they were that talented? No, they werent. They were talented, but it was their work ethic and determination that took them over the top. The current group of seniors/juniors do not have what it takes mentally to make themselves into good/great players. We got lucky we those 3, along with Vasquez, its not going to consistently happen.
When you do a poor job recruiting, i.e get a lot of guys ranked in the 75-150 range, youre taking a risk. The top 10 ranked kids are usually very far above everyone else in talent, and they can rely on that to make themselves into good players. As you get kids higher and higher ranked, the odds of them not having what it takes to develop into a good player lessens.
Theres a reason that the teams at the top of the polls, consistently, get the best recruiting classes. We can have a good year or two without getting a great class, but it will hurt our consistency, and thats what is happening.
Ever since the National Championship, we’ve usually had 2-3 average, bubble years followed by a good year. This is because we consistently bring in poor classes. Gary will find a low 4 star or high 3 star every once in a while and turn them into a stud, but he can’t do that every year.
Yeah the Terps have gotten either mediocre recruits who became good players or good recruits who became mediocre players. That’s not just a coincidence. D-1 Scouts aren’t wrong that often. Gary is great with people who have a lot of heart and a strong work ethic. That’s great. What about the people that have great potential, most notably Parker, Mosley, Mike Jones, Ibekwe, and even Cliff Tucker? Are you going to tell me that all of these guys not living up to their potential is just bad luck? You can’t tell me that Gary isn’t part of the problem in that regard. I really want Gary to stay, but I’m starting to get concerned about his ability to adapt to the players he has.
I would love love love love love to see Gary leave, but at this point it makes no sense because there is not a better alternative. He is a top notch coach, but coaching only gets you so far. You have to recruit also. Gary can’t. Who cares about the reasons whether it be because he doesn’t like “entitled” people or what not. Gary has the biggest ego out of any Mcdonalds All American. I would love to have a young coach such as Jay Wright to come in. The bottom line is that unless Bino is a top 25 recruiter, Maryland basketball will be a team that scratches for NCAA births every year and then maybe once every 5 years has a shot to get to the sweet 16. Put the Natty 10 years ago in the past, it’s ridiculous people still even bring that up. People love Gary, which makes sense considering he did win a Natty, but to call this “Garyland” or “Gary is a God” is flat out ridiculous. Coach K is a God. Dean Smith was a God. Fucking Billy Donavon is more of a God than Gary. Stop drinking the kool-aid. Gary is a great coach, but that’s it. Being the head coach of a Division I Basketball program requires more than just Xs and Os and finding disciplined guys. I am disciplined, work hard, and would be a 1 star recruit on rivals, which means I could be play on Gary’s team. Most of you on this site have no idea what you are talking about saying that this is not Gary’s fault. I think we need to reevaluate after this freshmen class graduates, so in three years and take it from there. I would not be surprised or upset to watch Gary leave. He gets paid top 20 money to take teams to the NIT? That doesn’t make sense.
I think you missed the point on the topic
Also, you’re the only one who mentioned Gary is God or anything of the sorts.
Wow.
I am guessing you were in middle school in 2002. Nothing wrong with that, a fresher point of view is good sometimes. But damn.
Don’t worry, Gary won’t be coaching in 5 years. We won’t get an already successful head coach from a power conference to follow him. Start watching for hot coaches in mid-major conferences. Too bad Patsos and Dickerson couldn’t have won more games. They are great guys.
"I would love love love love love to see Gary leave"
You watch your mouth when you talk about Gary. He is a Saint and you know it.
Honestly give gary 2 more years.. the recruiting is getting back on track, we got our guards no we need a couple more big men and we are good to go
by MurlandTerps on Feb 16, 2011 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
We’ve had 3 big men on the board (O’Bryant, Baru, and Hubert) and failed to land any of them, assuming Hubert goes to UNC. O’Bryant and Baru BOTH went to worse programs than Maryland. I can understand losing recruits to Duke, UNC, Kentucky, Kansas, and many of the Big East schools, but you should NEVER lose those big recruits to mediocre SEC programs and fucking mid-majors!
by KingFelix341 on Feb 16, 2011 6:29 PM EST up reply actions
Well we
shouldn’t be a mediocre ACC school.
by KingFelix341 on Feb 16, 2011 7:19 PM EST up reply actions
Get your stories straight
What could we have done to get O’Bryant or Baru? Baru is an Ivory Coast native who came to America to play basketball. The only reason he committed to CoC is because his legal guardian has a son named Pat Branin, who plays ball with Baru but wasn’t as highly recruited. He would only commit to a school that also took Pat Branin. Obviously Gary didn’t want to waste a scholarship on someone he didn’t want. O’Bryant got pressured by his family to stay close to home.
Now what miraculous thing would you have done to get either of them? Chol announces today so if he goes to UNC, Hubert may come to MD. If Chol goes elsewhere, UNC would probably be the more attractive school for Hubert.
I think a lot of you only see the surface and don’t want to dig a little deeper for the reasons behind why recruits go where they go. Ultimately, it’s up to them and there is nothing you can do about that besides trying to persuade them.
a couple years?
we havnt had a productive team since 03
by Luke Goldsborough on Feb 16, 2011 10:05 PM EST up reply actions
Last years' success has been deleted from the minds
of many here. Lots of short term memory loss going around, must be the devils lettuce.
by 1 proud terp on Feb 17, 2011 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
tournament productive
acc tournament really doesnt mean much anymore. all that matters is ncaa tournament and we havent produced like we should have
by Luke Goldsborough on Feb 17, 2011 12:45 PM EST reply actions
not sure i agree
The terps just seem always suck in the acc tourny wether we are good or bad.
by MurlandTerps on Feb 17, 2011 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
Top ACC Teams
Since the national championship, where does maryland rank in the ACC? Is there any team other than Duke or North Carolina that is clearly better?
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