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by mkneely on Nov 28, 2011 6:11 PM EST
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Somebody has to say this. I'm not disappointed with the AD, or with Edsall. I'm mostly disappointed with the fans. It's insane to me that people have been clamoring about firing Edsall weeks into his first season. I don't care how bad of a year we had (and I know, it was bad) there is no reason to call for Edsall getting fired. He was the Big East coach of the year, and although his record wasn't amazing, he won. You know how hard it is to win at UCONN, It's effin UCONN. He's not awful. I'm not going to get into all that went wrong, but the entire system changed, injuries were prevalent, players gave up, there were bad coaching decisions. We caught bad breaks. Isht happens.
It really kills me that people are posting John Feinstein's article and saying "I 100% agree". If you are a fan of MD and have done that then you don't understand the repercussions of your actions. I'm sorry, it's true. You just made it that much tougher for us to recruit. You really think that Edsall is going to get fired right now? If so, then keep asking for his head, but if you have an ounce of intelligence and understand how college football works, then you need to stand behind this program. You think kids want to come here after the fan base acts like we are now? You also think that if we fire Edsall right now we are going to get anyone better? After we ran him out of town after one season? So keep running around telling everyone how much you hate Edsall and watch recruits go to UVA, then watch our team be non-competitive for years.
I wish I could sit everyone down and explain how to be a successful fan base, but I can't. I'm buying extra season tickets next year because I know the program needs it most right now. I'm also going to talk up MD football every chance I get because I know what a good program it is.
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I'm fine with Edsall
by FIRE GARY CROWTON & TODD BRADFORD on Nov 28, 2011 8:32 PM EST up reply actions
His crusade came to an awkward end
Probably still exists on the site, but under a different moniker.
+100
The problem is that there are lot’s of so called Maryland fans that just don’t get it and won’t get it regardless of how much sense it makes not to go around chanting at games for the head coach to be fired after only two or three games. In fact some wanted him fired before the season began. The response by the rest of us is to chant “Let’s go Maryland” so loud that we drown out the whiners. This starts right now and right here.
It does no more good to debate sensibly with people who are irrational than to poke oneself in the eye with a red hot poker. It just causes pain.
I will not do anything to damage our football program like those who are debating what to do with our current head coach. Our head coach is here to run a good clean program and take Maryland to a National Championship eventually. This will take time to accomplish. I know we can do it.
“Let’s go Maryland”
“Let’s go Maryland”
“Let’s go Maryland”
“Let’s go Maryland”
“Let’s go Maryland”
by clevesanterp on Nov 28, 2011 9:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
50,000 people cheering your team on speaks louder than 5,000 boo's.
now everyone can get together and cheer this program on or they can complain and help/change nothing
by Maryland1206 on Nov 28, 2011 6:44 PM EST up reply actions
If fans speak with their wallet
I think they will be heard loud and clear, and they have every right to do so.
I was fine with Fridge getting fired, hell I was fine with Edsall. I’m just getting tired of his shtick. I’m OK with him being a hard ass, but he has to be more upfront about some of his decissions. DJ Adams, fine suspend him, but then don’t bring him back, have him do well and then play him here and there. Hell, if he came out and said “DJ is a punk ass who has already said he is gone after this season, so I wanted others to get playing time and see no point in playing him.” I’d be fine with that, but give us an answer, don’t alienate the fans and boosters.
Do you not think KA knows this past season was unacceptable?
I think it’s rather obvious. A fan who stops supporting the team soon after all hell breaks loose is the very definition of a Fair Weather Fan. In some areas of the country, a football game is considered entertainment, win or lose. Obviously, winning is a lot more fun. Just playin’ devil’s advocate.
I'm sure he knows this
I also hope he is sitting Randy down and saying he needs to get his PR shit together, I really think people coud deal with the record if he didn’t come across as such ass (he approaches the Andy Reid level of a stubborn ass). I don’t have season tickets (life gets in the way on weekends), but have always tried to drive down and make a game or two (for exactly the reason you said, entertainment), and I will continue to try. I’m also not going to get on someone who decides to spend their money elsewhere on Saturdays.
Agreed.
Edsall will more than likely be around for another 2 years minimum (unless it gets even worse next year). Until then, I will continue to support and root for MD, but not be happy about the losing. If things are still the same after 2 more years, then Edsall needs to be gone. It takes time to give a HC to move fwd with his plan. This year was horrific not only on the field, but off the field as well. Maybe Edsall will learn from his mistakes. We’ll see.
How will you be heard
With your wallet? That’s where there’s a disconnect for me. If you think Edsall should go, where is the money going to come from? Sure Plank or someone could come up with it possibly, but are they really going to shell out that kind of cash? Unlikely or else we probably would’ve swung for the proverbial fences during the coaching search. And NO, Leach was not the fences. This athletic department literally has less than no money. I agree with the point that you have to spend money to make money, but you actually have to have money to spend in the first place.
by FeartheTurtle2002 on Nov 28, 2011 9:46 PM EST up reply actions
The department needs money
People in stands = money
The problem is as much as people want to bitch about fair weather fans, those are the fans the AD needs. There will always be those who go to games no tater what, and while they are needed, the department knows they will be there regardless. The casual or far weather fan, who is deciding to spend the money on the game or a night out, is who needs to be sold on the program.
So if the casual fan decides to speak with their wallet, well the department will hear.
I'm not arguing whether they will "hear" you
If you speak with your wallet. What I’m asking is what can they possibly do about it if they don’t have the means to change anything?
by FeartheTurtle2002 on Nov 28, 2011 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly
So would you rather have a positive impact on this program and support it? Or would you rather speak with your wallet and watch things continue to go downhill if you believe that is the direction this program is heading?
by FeartheTurtle2002 on Nov 28, 2011 10:22 PM EST up reply actions
I never said I was going to do anything
If you read my other post I say that I will continue to try and make my usual game or two.
I’m also not going to get on someone who decides to spend money elsewhere on Saturday, it’s their moment and they can do with it what they please, nor will I question their “fandom.”
This season was a clusterfuck, it’s over, on to next year.
And honestly
I think a lot of people could deal with this season if Edsall didn’t come off as such a arrogant douche.
I have no problem with him being a hard ass, and holding everyone in the program accountable, but that should start from the top.
You're right
I do believe Edsall needs to be more accountable. And honestly, and I’m just speaking from pure speculation, but I’d be shocked if he doesn’t take some accountability for the way things ended up this season. I just think he’s not a very good speaker with the lights and cameras on him and isn’t great at portraying it.
by FeartheTurtle2002 on Nov 28, 2011 10:38 PM EST up reply actions
You see all of this stuff...
when you lose. When you win, nobody cares about the behind the scenes politics. When Edsall begins to win, all of this will fade away. If he doesn’t start to win, he will fade away. But he has to be given a reasonable amount of time to win.
* Maryland basketball has been a sleeping Giant. The Giant is waking up.
** It goes without saying, that if Maryland basketball was a sleeping Giant, whoever was at the helm before, put it to sleep.
by CharlesDriesell on Nov 28, 2011 10:41 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed that when you win a lot
Of the behind the scenes stuff goes unnoticed.
The problem is he didn’t win, and he didn’t handle things in the best way, which ticked people off (players/press/fans/boosters),
He will get at least the next two seasons, if the results are the same I’d go as far to say that the experiment is over. Maybe I’m just not a real fan.
Please don't put words
In my mouth or anyone else’s. I haven’t seen anyone that says what has happened this season will be acceptable for the next two years. We have simply said we believe he deserves more than one year to implement what he’s doing. Stop saying that anyone is saying you’re not a real fan if he wins 6 games in 3 years, you know that’s not what is being said.
by FeartheTurtle2002 on Nov 28, 2011 10:56 PM EST up reply actions
Calm down
I was trying to lighten the mood, a little sarcastic jab, sorry if you took it as a personal attack
My bad
Took it the wrong way, I tend to do that.
by FeartheTurtle2002 on Nov 28, 2011 11:31 PM EST up reply actions
I expect the team to improve
Significantly next year. Edsall didn’t get it done this year but I sill expect good things in the future.
Go Terps!!!
Go Terps!
by VCTerp on Nov 28, 2011 6:34 PM EST via mobile reply actions
it won't be hard to improve
on 2-10
I like Turtles!
Follow @HarryHareBear
The only place to go is up :)
Unless we only get one win, but hey. We have to get at least one right???
+1
This post should be the most recommended post in Testudo Times history.
* Maryland basketball has been a sleeping Giant. The Giant is waking up.
** It goes without saying, that if Maryland basketball was a sleeping Giant, whoever was at the helm before, put it to sleep.
by CharlesDriesell on Nov 28, 2011 6:35 PM EST reply actions
Go fly...
your GA Tech flag.
* Maryland basketball has been a sleeping Giant. The Giant is waking up.
** It goes without saying, that if Maryland basketball was a sleeping Giant, whoever was at the helm before, put it to sleep.
by CharlesDriesell on Nov 28, 2011 7:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This "If you don't like it, get out"
act is getting tiresome. The football team has generated more press with its uniforms than with its play. They have lost 7 straight games by double digits. A player has already transferred. They were a joke this season. Its the truth.
Let people vent their frustration in the wake of one of the worst performances in recent memory. There’s a difference between people being critical of the program and people rooting against the program. Most people here are grouped into the former.
I completely agree
People venting is cool with me, this year sucked, no one can blame you not that you would care if I did anyways.
But if we’re being honest, there were a good number of people that were never going to give Edsall a chance anyways because they wanted Leach. Hell, how many people have said “I would’ve bought season tickets if we hired Leach, but when we hired Edsall I said no.” Reiterating what I’ve said about 738 times in the past two days (yes I’ve been counting), that is completely ridiculous. If that is the case, you are a fair weather fan. And like I’ve said, if you are ready to admit that, cool. But I’d have to imagine pretty much everyone on this site that has commented on football considers themselves a real fan, which they aren’t if they aren’t willing to support through the good AND bad times.
So based upon everything I’ve read lately, I’d argue that there are a lot more of the latter (rooting against the program) than the former (being critical). I’m sure I’m wrong, but that’s what I’ve witnessed, and that’s where I have an issue.
by FeartheTurtle2002 on Nov 28, 2011 9:43 PM EST up reply actions
I know this is going to be a bad analogy, but roll with it
Think of Maryland Football like an ice cream shop. You go there, get your ice cream and you have a favorite flavor, lets say chocolate. After ten years, the ice cream shop says, hey, we’re done serving chocolate, we’re now testing out rocky road and fat free chocolate. You try both, and really like rocky road but the fat free chocolate isn’t for you. The ice cream shop goes with the decision to only serve fat free chocolate and ditches rocky road.
You say, well I still like the ice cream shop, but this flavor really isn’t for me.
That’s what Maryland football is for me. I like the program. I like the players. I would have preferred to have Leach right now but we’re stuck with Edsall. I’m not boycotting, I’m not cancelling season tickets (never had them), I just wish the Edsall regime was more geared towards my tastes than it currently is.
That is fine
I’m not saying anyone has to be in love with Randy Edsall. However in your anology, you at least tried the fat free chocolate ice cream. There seems to be many that not only would never try it, but are willing to give up ice cream all together until it is banished.
by FeartheTurtle2002 on Nov 28, 2011 10:58 PM EST up reply actions
I tried it
Bitter at first (taking the names off the jerseys) but I thought I could get used to it (the exciting game against Miami). however that fat free ice cream honestly tasted like shit. I guess I’d rather not eat at that ice cream shop than continue to eat ice cream that tastes like shit.
by kryptonianjorel on Nov 28, 2011 11:03 PM EST up reply actions
But is it impossible to think
That you could add toppings to the shitty ice cream and actually make it good. Be it a new Special Teams coach, new Defensive Coordinator, getting a top recruit or two, putting the names back on the jerseys, etc. Is it unthinkable that any or all of those things can’t or won’t happen? He hasn’t even been on the job a year yet, things could absolutely change.
by FeartheTurtle2002 on Nov 28, 2011 11:31 PM EST up reply actions
So you want me to polish a Turd?
How about we start the sunday making process over, this time with a good ice cream, THEN we can add all those tasty toppings.
by kryptonianjorel on Nov 28, 2011 11:33 PM EST up reply actions
It has been one year
As bad as it has been, it’s not as if anyone should be judged on the worst year of their life. If we were, then we’d all be done for. Give the man an opportunity to actually create his vision before we start crushing it, because I can promise you we haven’t seen it yet. Good things are coming.
by FeartheTurtle2002 on Nov 28, 2011 11:48 PM EST up reply actions
He spent 10 years at UCONN
with his vision, and despite his “successes” there, the fans were glad he left. I’m not waiting 10 years for him to implement his vision and return us to a 7-5 team (and he could only do this in a terrible football conference)
Strike a deal with him, pay him a sum of money, but allow him to coach elsewhere.
by kryptonianjorel on Nov 29, 2011 12:04 AM EST up reply actions
This was my biggest issue
I know people who go to UConn/went to UConn/people from the area and outside the initial shock of Edsall leaving, they weren’t too upset about it. They don’t like the current coach (who is completely underqualified) but I don’t hear anyone longing to have Edsall back.
How many of you have had ice cream down at the dairy?
If you have, you’ll never use MD and crappy ice cream as an analogy – that stuff is awesome!
"A new era has dawned in Maryland Athletics..."
by bball purist on Nov 29, 2011 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
It really is
Fat on top of more fat. It’s amazing.
Not as good as the dairy at Wisconsin, but still pretty damn good.
Time for a song of unity - let's stick together
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMbDYNDC3sA
"A new era has dawned in Maryland Athletics..."
"Someone has to say this..."
Thank you, oh brave soul, for repeating the sentiments of countless others. At least they kept it the comments section and refrained from making a fanpost.
Haha yeah
I love pretty much everything you just said mkneely, but where have you been for the past two months and especially the past couple days. Maybe you’ve been around, but I don’t remember it much, whereas my fellow Edsall supporters and I have been taking bullets for this program.
by FeartheTurtle2002 on Nov 28, 2011 9:38 PM EST up reply actions
Bottom line: when you lose in football or any sport, this will happen
The fact that anyone is surprised that the fanbase is upset after a team goes 2-10 baffles me a bit. And not only did they go 2-10, BTW: they went 2-10 in a spectacular fashion. Basically, if something could’ve been done improperly – PR, recruiting, anything – it was done improperly.
If you want to support Edsall, then support Edsall. It’s your prerogative and there’s no reason anyone should bash you for it (there’s a difference between “bashing” and “having a debate”). But there’s no reason you should bash anyone for not supporting him. It’s ridiculous to expect everyone to “support” a coach who came in, changed the culture of the institution greatly, pissed everyone off by blaming his predecessor and his players without giving them an ounce of credit, and lost fantastically.
But the thing I simply never understand is this unbelievably silly thought that we have any sort of impact on results. Hint: we don’t. The players play. The coaches coach. The coaches recruit. We don’t have a damn thing to do with an ounce of it. All we do is show up on Saturday and yell. That’s it.
Hey, remember when we bombarded Mitch McGary’s Twitter account with the ill-fated #MitchMcGaryFacts? Did it work? No. Because that isn’t what players care about. How do you explain Baylor or Florida landing basketball recruits if “fan support” has anything at all to do with it? How did Ole Miss, N.C. State, Arizona, Arizona State, and UCLA all recruit at a higher level then Maryland despite everyone and their mother calling for each of those programs to fire their coaches?
James Franklin went into Vanderbilt, a team that is used to losing and has a jaded, pessimistic fanbase. You know what he did? Won 6 games, went to a bowl, got a top-20 recruiting class including a top-100 RB out of Memphis. He’s getting an official visit from the best QB in the country, someone not even from the area.
Please, someone go ahead and tell me that Vanderbilt, which had gone 4-20 over the past two years, had a better “foundation” than Maryland.
by Ben Broman on Nov 28, 2011 7:40 PM EST reply actions 13 recs
Gotta disagree
That we don’t have an impact. Edsall’s job now seems to be in jeopardy because of all the negative fan support, and brah man form the WaPo’s article. You don’t think recruits take into account that future uncertainty? Nobody wants to commit to a school that may fire the head coach in the near future. That’s the main impact of all this negative pub.
It does
That is out of our hands (for now). That’s the point I’m making.
The shit record is the reason his job is in jeopardy
If Edsall wins, boosters donate money. People don’t have personal vendettas against their own coaches. If Randy wants to stick around, he needs to recruit better and win football games.
That is fine
But why can’t we allow this to be the reason he gets fired or succeeds, meaning his record. Why is it that we think our lack of support will do a damn thing when quite honestly, it’s impossible for it to with our current financial situation.
by FeartheTurtle2002 on Nov 28, 2011 9:56 PM EST up reply actions
Consider two scenarios ...
Scenario one …
Team goes 2-10, has a rough year on the field with lots of injuries, reduced practice time, etc. New coach is implementing his new style and some players don’t take it well. Fans are frustrated but understanding and continue to vocally cheer for and support the team despite hating the results of the season. They hold out hope for a better future once the new coach has fully implemented his system, realizing that it will take time.
Scenario two …
Team goes 2-10, has a rough year on the field with lots of injuries, reduced practice time, etc. New coach is implementing his new style and some players don’t take it well. Fans go ballistic, bash the coach, bash the program, call for everyone to be fired and stop showing up to games.
Do you think that the coach’s job is in much danger in scenario one?
Scenario one, with continued fan support (despite frustration) shows potential recruits that they will be supported if they come to the school. Scenario two shows recruits that fans are flaky, unrealistic and fair-weather.
Assumption is the mother of all @#%-ups.
Recommended reading: Death to the BCS
by mdak06 on Nov 28, 2011 10:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I understand what you're saying
but what a lot of people had a problem with was the way he handled the 2-10 record. I don’t mean to continue to bring up the past, but in 2009 with the Fridge, I remember him close to tears in the post game conferences wishing that we could pull out some of those games. He seemed to care 100% about the players and about the success of our program. You could tell that every loss killed him.
With Edsall, he’s blamed the players, blamed the previous coach, and continues to act like his sh*t don’t stink. You see most coaches blame themselves in a loss. Look at Andy Reid (relatively successful, maybe not great) and after every loss, even when guys blow tackles, make stupid plays, he’s always there taking the blame, saying he should have prepared better and that he would get better. Some of us just want Edsall to come out and say “Listen, this isn’t the season I had hoped for, I haven’t done my best to this point, and I want to make improvements starting at the top”. Another few wins wouldn’t hurt, but people are generally more forgiving when you are more friendly towards them. This works with the fans and it works double with the players. If Edsall came out after Temple and gave some sort of Tim Tebow Florida Gators speech, you bet they would have continued to play for him.
Those are just my thoughts, who knows. Maybe people will always hate Edsall. I just want a winner.
Andy Reid also comes off as a douche to the media
But players love him
All of us here want the Terps to win
You’re right Edsall is absolutely awful at PR. He needs to learn to handle the media better, both for his own sake and the sake of the program. It drives all of us (even the folks who don’t hate Edsall) nuts.
I think that there are a lot of people loved Friedgen, so they were immediately unhappy with Edsall as soon as he got on board, especially given the fact that he was in some ways the anti-Friedgen (e.g. strict discipline). Fridge was more emotional, some people like that. For some folks, nothing Edsall does will ever be good enough.
My general thoughts are this …
Edsall is lousy at talking to the media, and just about all of us are aware of that. He needs to work on it and I hope he takes the time to do so.
Edsall’s team had a very rough season on the field; it doesn’t mean that it will be that way in the future. It is a time of transition. He needs time to recruit players that will work in his system.
Maryland is not Florida, nor Alabama, nor Oklahoma, nor Ohio State. It will not be able to recruit numerous four-star and five-star players each year. I think those who expect that are beyond delusional. Over time, it should get better. Getting one recruit from Gilman (even “only” a three star) is a good start. The last time MD got a scholarship player from Gilman was 1976.
People need to be patient, and need to continue to support the team. There are idiots out there that are trying to hawk $30 t-shirts that say “FIRE EDSALL” … instead of wasting money on that, folks should buy a ticket and go cheer for the team.
I think there is a big difference between (a) criticizing Edsall for his faults but continuing to support the team, and (b) bashing Edsall for everything, demanding he be fired, and withholding support of the team.
I’m less than thrilled with Edsall’s performance so far, but I know there’s stuff going on behind the scenes. I’m giving him more time, and I’ll continue to cheer for the team.
Assumption is the mother of all @#%-ups.
Recommended reading: Death to the BCS
Nobody liked Friedgen
I loved Edsall immediately just because I thought “how can he be worse than Friedgen”. Well, we’ve seen that he can, and is worse than the Fridge, and buying out his contract’s last year may have been the worst decision our Athletic Department has ever made
by kryptonianjorel on Nov 28, 2011 11:36 PM EST up reply actions
I loved Fridge.
And I’m sure I wasn’t the only one who felt that way.
by CarolinaTerp on Nov 29, 2011 12:14 AM EST up reply actions
I was being dramatic
He did a good bit for the program, and left it at a high point. I felt it was his time to go, as did other. But again, others probably wouldn’t mind him staying. But thats not of importance anymore
by kryptonianjorel on Nov 29, 2011 12:32 AM EST up reply actions
I liked him too
and wish he was allowed to finish out his contract.
Thank you
for these sentences:
“If you want to support Edsall, then support Edsall. It’s your prerogative and there’s no reason anyone should bash you for it (there’s a difference between "bashing" and "having a debate"). But there’s no reason you should bash anyone for not supporting him.”
I’m all for people standing behind Edsall—it makes for interesting debate. But the immediate “if you criticize the coach you aren’t a real fan” response is just silly. It is an attempt to win the debate by not allowing the debate to take place.
by bshock on Nov 28, 2011 7:55 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
If edsall gets fired, the nazis win
by Womp Womp on Nov 28, 2011 8:24 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
I don't know that anyone
At least not myself, has called anyone a bad fan because they didn’t like Edsall. I have however called the people that A – don’t actually have a discussion on the matter, just make ridiculous statements on the matter, and B – say they won’t support this program until he’s gone even though you have the means to do so, bad fans, absolutely. In fact, if you do either of those things, especially B, you’re not even a fan really, let’s be honest.
And my usual disclaimer, this isn’t directed exactly at you bshock, just in general.
by FeartheTurtle2002 on Nov 28, 2011 9:18 PM EST up reply actions
Same here...
If you say you will not support the team until Edsall is gone, then I consider YOU to be gone. If you freaking bet against us, you are not a fan.
I have no problem with people disagreeing with me. I have no problem with people disagreeing with the direction of the program. I have no problem with people being unhappy with losing. What I have a problem with is people doing, and saying things that clearly hurt our football program. And many of the inflametory responses about Randy Edsall do indeed hurt our program.
* Maryland basketball has been a sleeping Giant. The Giant is waking up.
** It goes without saying, that if Maryland basketball was a sleeping Giant, whoever was at the helm before, put it to sleep.
by CharlesDriesell on Nov 28, 2011 9:30 PM EST up reply actions
This, on the betting thing.
I can never bring myself to make bets against any of my favorite teams, regardless of sport. I’d almost rather lose money and have my team win, than to win $$$ hoping my team fails. That to me is blood money, don’t want any part of it.
by 1 proud terp on Nov 28, 2011 9:36 PM EST up reply actions
Really?
I mean, really?
How are we supposed to disagree with the direction of the program if we can’t refuse to pay to go to games? Should those of us who want Edsall gone just sit there with our hands folded in our laps and meekly say, “Jeez, I’m really worried about the direction of our football program, but I don’t want to be a bad fan so I guess I should just keep buying tickets and supporting the people who are ruining the good name of our program.” No. I’m sorry, but that’s not being a good fan.
Sometimes, being a good fan is taking a stand and saying: I’ve had enough. There is no rule that you need to give a coach more than a year to prove himself when that year has proven that he’s the wrong man for the job.
I choose to voice my opinion, whether you agree with it or not, because I love Maryland sports. Believe it or not, Chuck, I love the Terps just as much as you do. And because I love the Terps, I will not sit here idly when I see the football program, that has gained so much in the past ten years being torn down by an egomaniac like Edsall. If you disagree and think we are moving in the right direction, fine. But don’t you dare tell me that I’m not a fan for wanting to save Maryland football.
Don't know if you'll see this response FTT, since it's a day late...
But I think that ‘fan support’ for Edsall probably falls under a bit of a bell curve.
You have a very vocal minority at one end of the spectrum: “Fire Edsall! Fire Anderson! Fire Loh!” They’re ‘opinions’ are, well soundbites.
You have a vocal minority at the opposite end of the spectrum: “If you want to fire Edsall, you must be a Nazi! He’s the next Bear Bryant (but this time he’ll stay at MD!)”
Then you have everyone else, making up the bulk of the fanbase, falling somewhere a bit to the left or the right of the median. These people, when they have a civil discussion on the matter, seem to find that they agree on a majority of points. Often times, there’s just a difference of BELIEF in whether or not Edsall will be the one to take us to the promised land. They’re just not going to get as much attention because they’re not making ridiculous statements.
Also, I’m not lumping you in with the extreme end of my curve, for what it’s worth. But there are some posters that, due to their… tone and word choice (?) come across as being extremely hostile. “You’re either with us, or against us! You’re not a real fan! Etc..”
I agree with you on a lot
I appreciate the insight, and always try to come back to comments I made, because whether you believe I was right or not, I will always own up to what I say.
When it comes to the crowd that wants to fire Edsall, I don’t believe they are bad fans for not wanting Edsall here. But there was a FanPost about how it’s a numbers game with Edsall and getting rid of him now will be better monetarily. Maybe I’m blind but I just don’t see it. The biggest thing I want people who are calling for Edsall’s job after one season to do is to tell me who would touch this program after to PR debacles of firing coaches in two seasons that would actually excite this fanbase? So I don’t think it makes them bad fans, I just think it’s a premature sentiment and would like them to finish their statement, i.e. tell me who the new coach would be.
I agree with you that I actually agree with a lot of what the people against Edsall say. But like you said, I have more of a belief in Edsall than others do. When I take a step back from the outcome of the season and see some of the things that happened, I can see positives where others see negatives. It’s definitely possible that I’m rationalizing everything and could be defending Edsall to a fault, but one season of bad football isn’t going to make me turn on somebody when I actually believe in many of the things they are doing, even if some of it was gone about the incorrect way.
And when it comes to my rants about fair weather fans, it’s not that I’m hating on fair weather fans. Like many people have pointed out, fair weather fans are what make a program when you have the little tradition that we have. However I hold the people that are active on this site and other Terps fan sites to a higher standard. We are on here because we care deeply about Terps athletics, maybe not all of them, but at least the big ones. When people say, “I’m not coming back next year because Edsall will still be the coach,” I’m trying to point out the consequences of their actions. If you are already a season ticket holder, or you are a prospective season ticket holder, and have the means to continue being one but choose not to because we are losing, that makes you a fair weather fan. I don’t believe many people that are active on this site to be fair weather fans, it’s obvious we invest too much time into it for that to be the case. That’s why it frustrates the hell out of me when people on here say things like that. I’ve said it a thousand times and I’ll say it again, true fans support through thick and thin. If you are unhappy, there are other ways to make your voice heard rather than hurting the program.
by FeartheTurtle2002 on Nov 29, 2011 10:04 AM EST up reply actions
Come on Ben
I love what you do on this site, but I can’t stand it when you say we have no impact. And then in other posts when I prove to you that we ABSOLUTELY have an impact, you ignore it and don’t respond, so I’ll do it again. And sure there’s a possibility that you have better things to do and don’t see what I say sometimes, but it’s happened too often for it to be just coincidence.
Allow me to bring you back to the immediate aftermath of the Miami game. When all of those prestigious area recruits were in attendance, they all looked at the program in a different way. It wasn’t because of the win, or even that we were on ESPN. When they were interviewed, the first thing out of almost every single one of their mouths was something to the effect of, “Wow, that stadium was incredible tonight. The fans were real passionate and into the game the whole time, it was loud as hell.” Then they mentioned the jerseys, then the win. We ABSOLUTELY have an impact on this program, not just financially, but in recruiting as well. And for you and others to ignore that frustrates the hell out of me. And sure it’s not the only factor they consider, but make no mistake that fan support is definitely a big factor when it comes to a lot of recruits.
Also, I don’t necessarily have an issue with those who aren’t crazy about Edsall, it was a tough year and not everyone has the same viewpoint on everything. However there are two types of Edsall haters that I have a huge problem with.
First, there are the ones that were NEVER going to give him a chance anyways unless he won the ACC this season because they wanted Leach so badly (which is ridiculous). There were people calling for his job long before he coached a game or there were any PR mistakes, and you know that.
Second, there are the people that are saying they won’t support this program if Edsall is the coach. Did he punch your mother? No? Okay then if you are a fan like you CLAIM to be, and you have the means to support this team, then stop bitching and support. That’s what fans do. Not supporting this team because you don’t get your way is childish. It’s not blind loyalty like so many people seem to be saying, it’s called being a fan of Maryland football. There are a million other ways to be heard and to voice your displeasure with a coach other than hurting the program as well as the entire athletic department. So if you’re not going to support this program, fine. But understand that you are not a true fan of this program and never will be, because the only time you will come around is when we are winning. Which I will still welcome your dollars then as well.
And I know you don’t like the “my fanhood is bigger than your fanhood” agruments Ben, and for the most part I agree. But damn it it’s getting frustrating. Let’s look at the definition of “fan” from dictionary.com…
Fan (noun) – and enthusiastic devotee, follower, or admirer of a sport, pastime or celebrity.
Synonyms: SUPPORTER, enthusiast, partisan, booster, addict.
So no, to me you are not a “fan” if you would rather sit at home on the coach bitching to your computer rather than come to the games and support this team and do everything you can to help out, even if it is just screaming as Ben says. Again I emphasize that this is only if you have the means to do so. And I’m not even saying you have to come and support Edsall, but support this program.
by FeartheTurtle2002 on Nov 28, 2011 9:34 PM EST up reply actions
Sometimes Ben "selectively responds", I've noticed it too.
But it’s his right, he runs the show, and he’s free to put his spin on things.
by 1 proud terp on Nov 28, 2011 9:41 PM EST up reply actions
I'm sure
That most of the time there are reasons. And with all due respect to Ben, I don’t need his approval for the things I say. But if we are having an active discussion on a subject and then you just stop responding after I make a good point (at least in my mind) and you continue to respond on other comments, then it seems to me you are avoiding the subject, right or wrong. And that doesn’t just go for Ben, but everyone.
by FeartheTurtle2002 on Nov 28, 2011 9:54 PM EST up reply actions
I've felt the same.
Ben, you need to man up sometimes, big guy ;)
by 1 proud terp on Nov 28, 2011 9:57 PM EST up reply actions
Yikes,
never thought I’d see the day people went after Ben.
Ben puts more of his life into this blog than anyone probably should, and puts out an amazing product for free (I assume). He doesn’t have the time to respond to everything you want him to on top of writing the majority of the articles that we are arguing about in the first place. Ben gets immunity around these parts.
I'm not trying to slam Ben
He just happens to be the most high profile person on this site obviously. He does a great job, yada yada yada, all that good stuff. But damn it if you are having a discussion on something, and then you drop out of it randomly even though you are still present, right or wrong it seems like you don’t want to own up to what might be a good counterpoint to your argument. And that frustrates the hell out of me sometimes, and it goes for everyone including myself, not just Ben. Ben doesn’t owe me a damn thing as he does enough, but if you’re in the middle of a discussion and drop out without acknowledging the other side, I just don’t think it’s right.
by FeartheTurtle2002 on Nov 28, 2011 10:19 PM EST up reply actions
Fire Broman
Seriously, he’s had a terrible run here! Who the hell thought bringing him here was a good idea? I mean there are only what? Like 5,000 comments here a day! Am I really expecting too much when I say he should comment on all of them?JUST KIDDING!!! And yes, that was a whole 20 seconds of your life you can’t have back.
by LeftCoastTerp on Nov 29, 2011 1:47 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Take it easy, Womps
Nobody is going after Ben. We are in a shitstorm at the moment, and Ben has clearly chosen his side. And that’s fine. We are all open to criticsm and disagreement based on what we do(or don’t) say on here. Nobody’s opinion is above being respectfully questioned, not even Big Ben. And I’ll bet he agrees.
by 1 proud terp on Nov 28, 2011 11:29 PM EST up reply actions
No problems with questioning his opinion
and I probably should have just left Ben to defend himself.
My only point was it’s just unrealistic to expect him to respond to everyone’s thoughts, so calling him out for “selectively responding” is a bit of bad form, in my opinion at least
I wasn't calling him out for "selectively responding"
In the sense that I made a random comment and he didn’t respond. I was saying it in the sense that we had gone back and forth on the same subject 2 or 3 times and then I make a good point and he disappeared. It’s really not that important anyways, so I have no idea why I’m continuing to talk about it. But yeah, good times here around Testudo Times isn’t it? haha.
by FeartheTurtle2002 on Nov 28, 2011 11:45 PM EST up reply actions
No you're right.
I hadn’t read Ben’s response to this yet. The dude works a full time job in addition to the crazy amount of time he puts in here. I remember in the heat of the Gary and coach search storm, he seemed to be putting out stories 24/7, couldn’t believe his dedication. I’ll give him a pass because nobody’s perfect…except for Gary Williams(that’s for you, Chucky D)
by 1 proud terp on Nov 29, 2011 12:00 AM EST up reply actions
Well said FTT
Not to mention what future damage this brings about. If we did fire edsall , after seeing how the fan treated a well respect guy among the coaching community, what coach wants to come to that mess. Thats a shitload of unfair pressure on a guy trying to instill his way and fo through some growing pains. Edsall did bring alot of fire on himself, but like many have said people were calling for his job the day after he was hired. He wasn’t my first choice either but seriously how could you call for a guys job after 1 year. And how can you say your not a fair weather fan, then turn around and say I won’t support the program if edsall is there. Then " lets fire edsall, but I know we can’t cause of financial issues, but it’s the right move. WTF IS WITH US MARYLAND FANS!!! Is there a guy with a container saying " get your contradictions here" , cause if he did I need to complain to his manager because he seemed to miss my section.
Look the guy is not perfect and is a bit arrogant but the guy is still a winner. We seem to underestimate what he did at UCONN. He did take a FCS to FBS and then took his team to a BCS game. Yeah , he did do it in the Big East, but let’s not kid ourselves, if we were in the Big East last year we wouldn’t have made it that far. UCONN probably would have beat us, WVU (loss) Pitt maybe, probably loss, even Syracuse would have gave us run for our money. Yeah, Uconn did get blown out by OU, but if I recall our BCS game wasn’t exactly a classic. And before amnesia strikes, he did steal a bit of good local talent from " our backyard" in the process.
All I’m saying is give him tIme, the guy has proven to be a program builder. With all do respect to this Mr. Feinstein , whom I’ve never heard of, he has never been a head coach of a college football team , never been in the lockeroom to motivate these guys, never been to practice with the guys, never surveyed what they do off the field and in the class, never checked on them when they were injured or called their parents to notify them, never been on a recruiting trip, hea never been a AD , bever hired nor fire a coach.It doesn’t matter how many books he wrote or prizes he got for each one, his opinion has no credibility toward and he doesnt have right to make that decision just like us. So no matter what he says on the matter his words hold no more weight than ours.
P.S – why should we fire KA, can someone please tell me, again I’m missing something. Hes put/ putting forth plans to upgrade Byrd, Comcast(making it available to outside entertainment) , the soccer field , indoor practice facility, team house, something else I can’t remember. It was on an IMS board, someone had it and it show where everything would go. He hired a good basketball coach, was instumental in rehiring Bino. Made sure Gary would get his honor , as well as Lefty. He been to every football , basketball, and lacrosse event . In fact the last 2 football games he wasn’t in his booth, he was on the sidelines. He road to the hospital with Andrew gonnella, stayed the night with him, informed his father,and provides Mr. Gonnella with transportation to Georgia to see his son. So just because you don’t like the football situation , he should be fired with Edsall. Again, WAT IS UP WITH US MARYLAND FANS!!!!! Sheeeew, goooood night, Go Terps!!!!
This is long
Re: me not responding: Trust me, it isn’t out of selective response. It’s not an “If you disagree with me I’ll ignore it.” (If you want to play that game, where we you after I brought up the 93% support of Edsall post-Miami? :p Kidding, of course.) There are thousands of comments on here a day, and I don’t have the heart or ability to sift through all of them anymore in addition to making semi-regular posts. So if I don’t respond, I apologize, but it doesn’t have anything to do with me “backing down” so to speak.
If you want me to “re-enter” a conversation, please, point me to where I lost it and I’ll be happy to join in.
That said, while we’re on the topic, I am trying to involve myself less in the comments moving forward and trying to retake more of a “blogger” role, precisely because it’s difficult keeping up with all of my conversations and I don’t want to get in situations like these. Anyway, back on topic.
First of all, to say that every recruit went atmosphere-jerseys-win in that order is explicitly false. Did many mention the atmosphere? Sure, bunches did. But to act as if that was the single most important thing to every recruit, with jerseys #2 and the win #3? No, sorry. You’re not inside the heads of every recruit, nor did you read the full interview transcripts of every recruit, partially because not all of them are available. It was important. But many recruits don’t care much about atmosphere, and liked the jerseys, that it was on ESPN, that it was a big win, or any number of things more than that. People are different.
But I have other problems w/ your metaphor. To begin with, my point was focused toward fans calling for Edsall’s head, which was the point of this post, not fans not showing up to games. So the Miami example isn’t really a 1 for 1 with what I said, although there is some minimal overlap (Baylor-Florida basketball comments).
However, I should agree with your basic premise, which is atmosphere absolutely matters. It does, for sure. I wouldn’t say it matters half as much as you say, and it is entirely possible to recruit well without consistently having great atmospheres. Case(s) in point: Virginia last year. Vanderbilt. TCU. Ole Miss. Hell, goddamn Purdue is in the freakin’ top 30 in recruiting rankings this year. If you’re a good recruiter, it’ll show through, no matter the hand you’re dealt. If you’re not, well, a good hand can hide that a little bit, but not much.
But here’s the thing as it relates to your argument. Assuming your debate isn’t entirely academic (and it may be, but I’m guessing not, otherwise you wouldn’t be defending it so vigorously), you’re trying to get consistently get this atmosphere, right? Thing is, the people who go on message boards and scream about firing Edsall and will read this argument aren’t the ones who create atmosphere. What percentage of Maryland fans do you think frequent this site, including the casual fans who make the majority of the fanbase? 5%, maybe? Certainly not enough to single-handedly create a great atmosphere.
For that, you need the casual and “fair-weather” fans. It’s Maryland football, there might be 3000 diehards in the entire country, if that, and half those have been turned off by Edsall to the point where they might not be diehards anymore. You need the casual fans to show up in full force and get drunk and yell – not because they’re dedicated to Maryland sports, but because it’s their college and its fun to get drunk and watch your college beat another college. Those guys aren’t on here. When your point is about creating a great atmosphere, it’s really a moot point, because those casual fans aren’t interested in arguments on the internet, no matter how convincing.
One thing draws them, and one thing only. Winning. Because it is very rarely fun to get drunk and watch your team lose. Win, and almost every problem in the world goes away.
In that sense, the only thing that matters about Edsall creating atmosphere is whether or not he can get the wins. Which, really, is all it’s ever about. And as I’ll always say: we have no impact on what goes on during a game. Maybe if we’re really loud there will be a slight difference, but not enough to turn a very good program into a very bad program. So support him or don’t support him: if he’s good enough, he’ll win and the support to make a great atmosphere will be there. If he isn’t good enough, we won’t and no one will show up. Simple as that.
And as for the fan argument: you know where I stand. The only thing I’ll say is that there might be 5-10% of people who “never gave Edsall a chance.” Again: his approval rating after the Miami win was 93%. So that’s a pretty big group of the fanbase who were “willing to give him a chance.”
Appreciate the reply
And here… we… go…
First off, I’ll start with the thing that doesn’t really matter and was kind of silly for me to bring up anyways. Like I said I appreciate you responding. But I wasn’t talking about I made a comment once on a random post and you didn’t write anything back. But there have been a few times where you and I have gone back and forth, and it gets to what I believe was a good point, and then you disappear. Again, you do more work on this site than any can ask and have a life of your own, but when we are or anyone really is having a discussion on something and someone disappears randomly after a decent point is brought up, it does look a certain way.
Now onto the good part.
When it comes to my point about the recruits after the Miami game, maybe we read different things, and it’s quite possible that the articles were written to be portrayed a certain way, but the majority of the articles I read (be it from here, IMS, or other places on the internet) about the interviews with those recruits in the days after that game, they talked about the fan presence more than the jerseys, win, or anything else. I’m not claiming that it was the most important thing to them, just that it is an important part of most recruits decisions. I’ve played and been friends with multiple athletes that either played or have played D-1 football, and two that are in the NFL (but who’s counting). I know for a fact that the fan base was one of the more important factors in their recruiting. Who the hell wants to go on an official visit and half the stadium is full? Like you said, people are different, and not every person I know had the fan base in their top 5 factors, but a decent amount did and that means something.
As for still being able to recruit without a great fan base, sure it’s absolutely possible. But my point wasn’t whether or not it could be done, my point was that our support as fans matters a hell of a lot more than you are giving it credit for.
And as for the 93% approval rating after the Miami game, that’s a great number you pulled and didn’t know or remember that. But my opinions don’t just come from this site, it comes from multiple sources. I know you read IMS, and I’ve never seen a more negative site in my entire life. And how many people were so quick to turn on Edsall after a couple losses piled up? I know it’s a tough season, but damn if we were all judged by the worst years of our life we would all be screwed.
And I’m not saying fair weather fans aren’t ultimately valuable. But wouldn’t you agree that the majority of people on this site that are commenting on football would consider themselves in the upper-echelon of fans when it comes to football? So yeah, I hold people on this site that are as active as we are to a higher standard than being a fair weather fan. And it’s not as if I’m mad at someone for being a fair weather fan (although I can’t say I’m excited about it), I do get mad when they portray themselves as diehards and clearly aren’t. That gives us as a fan base a bad name when fans like that are lumped in with the diehards.
As for the people on this site only being a small percentage of the Maryland fans, I can agree with that. But we also have a responsibility as fans to recruit more fans. I can’t recall who said it earlier, but I do talk up Maryland football when I can to try and convert people. Hell, I got my company to purchase a 100 tickets to the Towson game this season because I sold it as a good company retreat or whatever. Sure the tickets were cheap and the game wasn’t the greatest, but that’s not the point. As fans, we influence those around us that are fair weather. If we are all negative all the time, why would any fair weather fan want to give us a shot? Why would they want to ultimately become a fan of this team with the negativity that has been surrounding us lately.
As for winning being the only thing that can fix things. No argument from me. But like I said earlier, if we were all judged by the worst year of our life none of us would be very well off. Are you going to tell me that you really believe that Edsall is such a bad coach that he shouldn’t be given the opportunity to turn things around and continue to implement his system? That there were no outside factors in why this season sucked and every bit of it is Edsall’s fault that he could’ve prevented?
I know I’m rambling, there’s a lot to say, but too tired to say it. I know that my idea of our fan base is more utopian than anything else. I went to high school in the south where football is king and every game from high school to the pros was sold out regardless of the teams record. And sure a good amount of those programs win, but they also have fan bases that support no matter what. And that’s what gives them the money to have the best facilities and stadiums and coaches in order to attract the top recruits and win the most games. I would say maybe I’m wrong about this, but I’ve seen it proven year after year, so I honestly don’t see how I could be.
by FeartheTurtle2002 on Nov 28, 2011 11:29 PM EST up reply actions
Fairweather Fans
I feel like you throw that term around too loosely.
Under your definition, it seems as if any downgrade in enthusiasm means someone is a fairweather fan. I view it like this:
On August 1, 2011, Poster X’s favorite team was Maryland
Poster X attends 2 home games.
The 2011 football season was terrible. BUT:
On August 1, 2012, Poster X’s favorite team is Maryland.
Poster X watches every game on TV, cheering loudly.
Under this example, you’d call Poster X a fairweather fan. That strikes me as a ridiculously loose definition. The guy still loves the Terps, still roots for the Terps, is still a Terps fan.
I guess I'm wrong
But I don’t see that as a loose definition. Part of being a die hard fan is doing what you can to help your team. I’m not saying you have to picket on the side of the road in a Testudo costume, but if you’re not going to help financially yet you have the ability to yet won’t because we are losing right now, then that to me makes you a fair weather fan. That is the key to me, if your actions are decided by whether we are winning or losing, then yes, to me you are a fair weather fan. A true fan should support exactly the same whether your team is winning or losing. Whether your a die hard fan of the Terps, Redskins, Ravens, Orioles, etc. But ESPECIALLY for college athletics and this college program considering there is no billionaire backer like there are for pro teams to hurt in their pockets. If you don’t support financially, you are only hurting the athletic department that won’t have the means to change things regardless.
by FeartheTurtle2002 on Nov 29, 2011 1:30 AM EST up reply actions
See this is where you lose me
Use bshock’s scenario..
On August 1, 2011, Poster X’s favorite team was Maryland
Poster X attends 2 home games.
The 2011 football season was terrible. BUT:
On August 1, 2012, Poster X’s favorite team is Maryland.
Poster X watches every game on TV, cheering loudly.
Instead of Poster X attending 2 home games in 2011, he doesn’t attend any home games in 2011 but watches them all on tv. In 2012, he doesn’t attend any games but watches them all on tv. This fan has spend less money on the program in the last two years but his “level of support” has remained constant. Would you consider this fan to be “better”/less fair weathered than the fan who went to two games in 2011 and zero in 2012?
Some people have a hard time justifying spending $40 per ticket (family of four) in addition to parking, concessions, etc. for something that they will not get the same level of enjoyment out of. Think about it like this, I would go see a great movie in theater and pay the $11 per person plus food but I would rent an average movie and spend $3 and watch at home. Its the same with going to sporting events. The value of being at a winning game is much greater than the value of being at a losing game. So if the Terps were winning, the joy/entertainment I/my family would get out of going would be worth the ~$200 per game while the joy/entertainment of watching a game in which we play like crap, in bad weather, against a team we’ll likely lose to would only be worth ~$120. (By the way, this is all hypothetical, I’m a young alumnus living hundreds of miles away with no money and no family so my support is limited to a game per year in person/espn3)
I understand your points about the teams success shouldn’t determine the way you support them, but for most, sports are entertainment and entertainment is a game of value.
I get what you're saying
And I’m not saying just because you are a fan means you HAVE to give money. My definition of a fair weather fan is someone whose support for a given team is in direct correlation with the amount of success that team is having. So if that fan you point out that went to two games this year, but goes to no games next year, if his reasoning for not going to the games is because we are losing, then yes I would call him a fair weather fan. I see where people can disagree with me on this, but based upon the definition I rolled out above, there’s no way my point of view is changing on this.
by FeartheTurtle2002 on Nov 29, 2011 10:29 AM EST up reply actions
Its about value
I would pay $200 per ticket to see the Terps play in the national championship but I wouldn’t pay $200 to watch us play against Temple.
Think about it yourself, if you could pay an extra $10 for a guarantee the Terps would win, wouldn’t you do it? Of course you would. The reality is, people can’t decide to pay less for a ticket when they know the Terps are going to lose. If they started giving away lower level tickets for $20, I’m sure fans would be more willing to sit through and watch a loss because the value is there.
You’re severely discounting the value effect of the product on the field. Winning/Playoffs/Bowls are more valuable than losing.
I think part of the sad truth a lot of us don't want to admit to is...
We don’t have a strong football fan culture here. At least compared to consistently good programs that we aspire to be like.
There are MANY reasons for this, but should be the topic of its own FanPost. I’ve been meaning to make it for a while, but it’s very daunting if I want to do it right.
Well, not "wrong"
Because it is an opinion-type thing. It is hard to be right or wrong.
I just think a fairweather fan has a pretty bad connotation. People that literally don’t follow the team, but claim to love them when good things happen. For example, half of my high school went to WVU. They talked a ton of shit my freshman year (the year we crushed them twice, including in the Gator Bowl—not smart)—until I called them all out by naming more players on their roster than they could.
That, to me, is a fairweather fan. Someone that has season tickets one year, and doesn’t the next (but still lives and dies by the Terps—just in front of the TV) doesn’t strike me as a fairweather fan. Maybe that person is missing an opportunity to maximize his contribution to the program.
But how far does that go? I spent 80 bucks on a concert ticket last week. Am I a fairweather fan because I didn’t donate that to the Terrapin Club, or buy a ticket to a nonconference basketball game? Instead of “helping” the Athletic Department, I spent my money on another form of entertainment. Just like the person that gave up season tickets.
I just think your definition of “fairweather fan” as “not doing everything you can to support your team at all times” is flawed. But, if that is the definition we are working with, I guess I’m a fairweather fan.
That wasn't my definition
My definition of a fair weather fan is someone whose support for a given team is in direct corrolation with the amount of success a team is having at a given time. Not that you have to do everything to support all the time regardless of outside circumstances.
by FeartheTurtle2002 on Nov 29, 2011 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
So your definition of fairweather fan is:
“Allowing direct financial support to decrease as a result of disappointment with the performance and/or direction of the program.”
It matters not that the person still follows the Terps everyday on message boards, cheers for the Terps every gameday (instead of season tickets, just going to a couple games a year and watching the rest on TV), talks about the Terps with friends, etc. In fact, that person still donates $500/year to the Terrapin Club (although last year he donated $600).
That guy is a fairweather fan?
I guess I just don’t see why the term has to be relative to what the individual did the previous year. SuperBooster is pissed that we hired Edsall, and pissed that we had a crappy year—so he donates $50,000 instead of his usual $75,000. That downward adjustment makes him a fairweather fan?
Meanwhile, Casual Fan, as he did last year, wears a Terps shirt once a month, and watches parts of each game that Maryland plays against Notre Dame, FSU, and WVU. But because he didn’t have a decrease in his level of support, he doesn’t get tagged with the derogatory term?
Because it is the definition
Do you disagree with my definition? That someone who is willing to support when we win yet not willing to support when we lose is a fair weather fan? There is grey area, you are correct. I’m not saying that EVERYONE that loves this team has to buy season tickets immediately or else.
I am however speaking to those people who either A – have tickets but are planning not to renew based solely upon the teams performance this past season or Esdall still being here, or B – Have said they would’ve bought season tickets had we hired anyone but Edsall. That is by the very definition a fair weather fan, someone who is not willing to support this team through a dark period just because we aren’t winning, not because they can’t afford it or anything like that.
Being a fan of a team means supporting that team. The most valuable thing that we can do as fans for this program is to help support if financially. If you are a fan, then you obviously want to see us do well. If our AD doesn’t have money, it will likely hurt the product on the field. Therefore, supporting this team isn’t just about entertainment for those who truly care about this team, but it’s an investment into our future. And without enough people making that investment and believing in our future, we will always be a mediocre team. That’s the way I see it.
by FeartheTurtle2002 on Nov 29, 2011 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
I absolutely disagree with your definition
A fairweather fan, to me (and most on this board it seems), is someone who pretends to be rabid and passionate about the team in the good times, but abandons the team for a new flavor of the month in the bad times.
You paint it in black and white—which is just ridiculous. For example: “That someone who is willing to support when we win yet not willing to support when we lose is a fairweather fan.” We AREN’T talking about people that totally abandon the program in a bad year. Those people are fairweather fans.
But you are completely content with lumping anyone and everyone else in that category with those people. People that are pissed off about this year, weren’t entertained by the product on the field, don’t like the direction of the program, etc. Whether as a planned “protest” of the program, or simply because watching a crappy product takes a backseat to life’s many other obligations, these people choose not to get season tickets. They haven’t abandoned the program. They haven’t embraced a new frontrunning team.
The fact that your definition pretty much includes everyone but you makes me think its a crappy definition. (Response to your last paragraph in new post)
You're right
And honestly you’ve changed my mind a little bit. I appreciate the other side to the argument, I need it a lot of the time.
Basically what made me so strict on my definition was last season. I know we won 2 games the year prior, but as the season went on it was apparent we were a good team, yet we still couldn’t give tickets away. Then the Military Bowl happened and I was livid. We deserved the Champs Sports Bowl, but it was no one’s fault but our own (the fans) that we were relegated to the Military Bowl because everyone knows we don’t support our team to the fullest extent even when the product is good.
So yes, there is some grey area and I’ll concede to that. But people need to realize that we can’t complain about Military Bowl appearances if we aren’t going to support this team. The only way we don’t go to the Military Bowl without fan support is if we win the ACC, or lose in the ACC title game, that’s about it at this point considering how poor our reputation is as a fan base.
But there are other ways to support this team, and I’m with that and I can’t tell anyone how to spend their money. So while my definition of a fair weather fan was far from complete, also realize that the single best way to support this program is to either show up on gameday or make yourself a part of the Terrapin Club, regardless of what other ways there are to support.
by FeartheTurtle2002 on Nov 29, 2011 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
And not to lose the forest for the trees
I agree that we need attendance, we need financial support, etc. I just think “voting with your wallet” is a reasonable way to protest.
You are right that no funds might hurt the program. But if you think, as many do, that the program is doomed as long as Edsall is at the helm, then withholding funds might speed his exit, and enable a quicker rebound for the program.
Note: I’m not saying I think that. Just that, if one does think that, it is a rational approach.
But its bball time now. Go Terps.
Investment
You say: If AD doesn’t have money, the program will never get better.
We say: The AD had money, and spent it on unnecessary expansions and as assclown of a coach. Money only helps if it is wisely spent—and it certainly doesn’t look like it has been. If we clean house, and get competent people, maybe the money returns because people will have confidence that it is being spent wisely.
In other words, I view KA as similar to the homeless guy I pass on my way to work. I feel bad for him, and I’d like to help him out. But I’d be more likely to give him a dollar if I knew he was buying breakfast. But I’m pretty sure he is just going to buy cigarettes. In sum, KA = bum, and Edsall = cigarettes. (I kid, I kid).
Furthermore, the “money leads to success” argument is susceptible to the chicken-or-the-egg response. The attorney in me likes to view this as a “burden-shifting” conundrum. I think it is more rationale to look at it this way—who bears the burden of jumpstarting the program’s success—Edsall & Co. or the Fans?
If I was torn before, I’m not now—not after the fantastic debacle of a season we just witnessed. I think the burden has shifted to Edsall, the AD, and the players to put together a product worth watching, and worth investing in.
True fans won’t root for any other team. But rational fans won’t toss good money after bad.
Had me laughing at the bum/cigs comparison!
But I think the program is bigger than both Edsall and KA. How’s this for incentive, come out to support players like Meggett and Vellano, who played their hearts out, and gave us brief moments of joy in an otherwise miserable season. Do it for the kids, mannnnn!!!!
by 1 proud terp on Nov 29, 2011 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
That is not this AD
I’m not going to punish Kevin Anderson for what Debbie Yow did. I’m not saying KA has made great decisions all the time, but the expansion wasn’t his battle to fight. KA didn’t create this huge deficit, so I won’t get on him for it.
And Edsall and Co. may have more of a responsiblity to ensure this AD’s success, but that doesn’t excuse us from our responsiblity either in my opinion. If anything, let’s say I didn’t agree with Edsall, I’d feel even more pressure to support the program so that we had a hope of getting him out of here.
by FeartheTurtle2002 on Nov 29, 2011 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
And
You spoke of the bum/money/ciggs comparison, which I’ll give you was good.
But to me, and this is a TERRIBLE comparison but I’m going to go with it anyways, Kevin Anderson is almost like the wife whose husband died who made all the money in the family, but they had just bought a huge house, nice cars, etc. But now all the burden is on her to try and get herself out of debt. Wouldn’t you be more willing to help the wife out? Don’t mean to compare KA to a girl, but you get what I’m trying to say hopefully.
by FeartheTurtle2002 on Nov 29, 2011 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
I'd add one thing to your analogy
KA is the widow, right? And now she is in a ton of debt, not entirely by her fault, right?
Well, if the first financial decision she made was to buy a $120,000 Kia, I’d not be confident in her to get us out of the mess she inherited.
And yes, for those counting, Edsall is now a bum’s cigarette and an overpriced Kia.
Compromise on the term.
It might be more appropriate to call many here “fair weather supporters”. I think anyone who takes the time to post a comment here is a fan.
However, anyone who thinks they are doing more good than harm by no longer supporting the team while it struggles, is pretty short-sighted, imo. The program needs money badly, to make facility improvements that will make us more competitive in the long run. The longer you current anti-Edsall peeps withhold your financial support, the longer the program(with or without Edsall) takes to reach it’s goal…winning. Randy will ultimately be judged on his record, he has every incentive in the world to make rapid improvement, or he’s gone. That said, the program is bigger than Edsall, and fans that abandon it now, are only hurting themselves in the long run.
by 1 proud terp on Nov 29, 2011 11:40 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Everyone always feels their points are decent, which is why they’re saying them. Anytime anyone “drops out” of a discussion, it will look “that way” to the person who made the last point. Trust me, every time I point out to Chucky that Josh Wilson wasn’t a two-star I feel like he’s ignoring me, too. Apologies if I’ve given off that vibe; it’s never been intentional.
I think the fanbase/atmosphere thing is just another area we really disagree in. I acknowledge that it helps, but it’s at such an extent that I consider it more or less minimal. My reasoning for that: basically, I’ve just seen too many good recruiting jobs in bad places to believe that it’s an important factor that it makes a good recruiter look like a bad recruiter. It will hurt for a few, but in the big scheme of things either a coach can recruit or he can’t. This is so far down the list. As I said, people are different, so maybe for some people it is really important, but for the majority the #1 factor is the relationship with the head coach and his ability to sell the program’s strong points and cover up its flaws. If Edsall was good at doing that, he’d have a much better class than he’d have now and this wouldn’t really matter.
Fair play to your first paragraph re: casual fans, but we’ve already established that we disagree on what “fanhood” really is, particularly when it comes to finances.
As for the second paragraph re: casual fans, I go right back to the third one. Having a large group of diehards help thanks to peer pressure if nothing else (see Nebraska, Ohio St., etc) but I think recruitment efforts, in all, are pretty minimal. It’s always a bonus, but if you win you don’t worry about having to “recruit” anyone. Not to mention the fact that Byrd is a 55000 seat stadium, so the 5000 or so football diehards out there would have to be doing a lot of recruiting on a game-by-game basis. It’s good and I encourage everyone to do it, but it seems more of a matter of principle than one of substance.
I think you take a very optimistic view wrt this season. Because while this is the worst year of Edsall’s life, it’s also the best year he’s had at Maryland. When you only have one year in a given situation, there are minimal past successes to point to. Maryland isn’t UConn and is facing an entirely different set of challenges. The only thing we’ve seen him do, facing the exact set of challenges he’s facing now, is go 2-10 and recruit at a low level. So a lot of people will look at the situation and be a little less optimistic, which has to be expected.
It’s not bad to be utopian, but understand that it’s unlikely. Besides, Ole Miss and GT – southern schools, as you mention – don’t sell out regardless of results, and guys like Mark Richt and Houston Nutt (him especially) might disagree that southern fans supported him no matter what. It goes back to a bit of the chicken-or-the-egg deal, about whether successful football begat fan support or the other way around.
We’ll never know the real answer, but in this case it might be a bit of both. That said, the fact that “football schools” and “basketball schools” aren’t entirely geographic – they both exist in every geographic reason (Duke, UNC, Kentucky in southern football territory; Illinois and Indiana in midwestern football territory; Boston College in northern basketball territory) – tells me that it has a good bit more to deal with success than it does some seemingly-randomly-created allegiance certain fanbases have to certain programs but not to others.
Which isn’t to say that it isn’t a good idea to try to make our program more like theirs. Only that they didn’t manufacture it, and it’s very difficult – almost impossible – to manufacture independent of success.
I get you
Even though we still disagree on the main subjects of this.
Of course I will say a few things. First, I don’t believe I ever said that everyone had to be all in for Edsall. I just said we should be all in for our program. To me there is a huge difference. That is in response to your Richt/Nutt comment.
When it comes to recruiting, I still feel as though you are taking what I’m saying the wrong way. I’ve said time and again over the past few days that building relationships is the single biggest factor in recruiting. But just because an enthusiastic fan base isn’t the most important part doesn’t mean it’s not a factor. And even if it wasn’t, you can’t deny that it is our dollars from buying tickets, merchandise, etc, that help us to build our athletic facilities, etc. Much less get out of debt. But yes, there are all-star recruiters out there that just seem to thrive in a certain area no matter what they are selling (Locksley, Poindexter, and LJ to name a few in this area). But whether the fan base is 20% of the factor for a recruit committing or 2% of the reason, we still have a hand in it. And like I said, when you factor that not only do we enhance the gameday atmosphere, but athletic facilities and all that, I’d argue it’s way closer to being even above a 20% factor than anywhere near 2%.
And I’ve said this a few times in the last few days as well, please stop killing our recruits that have committed to Maryland before they even have a chance to put a jersey on. As fun as it is to see as many stars as possible, you know that judging a football recruit is WAY more difficult than a basketball recruit. There have been plenty of guys that were rated as two stars but played like 3’s (meaning they were solid pieces), plenty of 3’s that played like 4’s (meaning developed into an important player), and plenty of 4’s that have carried a team. Now granted it could just as easily fall the other way. But as I said previously, these commits that we have right now aren’t exactly guys we settled on because we missed out on the bigger fish. These are the guys that Edsall and his staff evaluated and targeted because they believed they could help this football program. If nothing else, Edsall did a pretty good job at UConn of finding and developing talent, you can’t take that away from him. So until he actually gets a recruiting class or two in here and they just fall on their face, I’m not going to kill these kids. It goes without saying, but Madaras was a huge get. I also obviously like Sean Davis, Bragliio, Rowe, Dowdy, etc. There are entirely too many football players and teams out there to evaluate for these recruiting services to even be half correct. Sure I’ll admit that none of these guys will be top 50 players in this class 4 years from now, but they can absolutely develop into something good. So please stop talking them down until we can actually see them on the football field. If you want extremely recent low stars that have played well for us, there is Hendy (a 3 star and I believe everyone’s favorite from last years class), Twine (a 2 star who I think we can agree played pretty well for a freshman), Garcia (a 3 star starting at LT), Robinson (a 3 star that was starting at safety), and Andre Monroe (a 2 star beast at DT). Give these guys a chance.
And when it comes to when you said yes this is Edsall’s worst year, but his best year at Maryland… okay… I guess I can give you that. But is one year really enough to fire a guy for that didn’t break any rules or anything of that nature? Does he not deserve at least one more year to attempt to show what his vision is and even right his wrongs? I’ve never said that anyone can’t be upset with this season or even Edsall, I have a few beefs with him too. But only allowing the guy one year before you start calling for his head is really premature to me. But if we’re being honest, I’m not going to change my view on this and neither are you nor anyone else who feels the way they feel, so it is what it is at this point.
As for the other thing about sports not being geographic, I don’t know where that came from, but I’m tired so forgive me. I will say however I’ve always kind of thought North Carolina to be more about basketball than football, same with Kentucky. And isn’t Indiana known as a major basketball state? And does BC really get that much support in football? And I’m not just talking about the colleges, but at the high school level as well. Maybe those were the points you were trying to make, I don’t know, I’m tired, so if it was forgive me.
So in conclusion, here’s pretty much my summary and it doesn’t look like we’re going to agree. 1 – Edsall deserves more than one bad season to prove himself. 2 – Fans absolutely have an impact on the success or failure of this program. 3 – Stop killing recruits that haven’t put on one of our 32 (33 with the Pride) combinations yet. 4 – Please don’t act as if there weren’t outside factors that hurt our season just as much if not more than Edsall did.
by FeartheTurtle2002 on Nov 29, 2011 1:26 AM EST up reply actions
Yes, I think we'll just have to disagree
I understand what you’re saying about recruiting. And atmosphere certainly is a factor and I’d never claim otherwise. I just don’t think A) comments about firing Edsall on a blog have anything to do with it, which actually is what my post was primarily about (read what the OP wrote and you’ll see); B) it’s important enough that it’ll have a serious effect on Edsall’s time here.
We’ll go in circles all day if it doesn’t stop at some point, so I’m going to try to condense my response from here on out. I know you disagree with my points. Anyway:
-Football recruiting is a bit more open than basketball recruiting, but not so much so that, say, a class of two/three stars (what we have) will beat a class of four stars (what FSU, Clemson, and VT have) with any measure of consistency. Given that beating FSU, Clemson, and VT is the goal, I think it’s reasonable to say Edsall isn’t recruiting well enough right now. (And it isn’t just looking at two-stars. We only have three of top 25 players in the state, only one of the top 10. We have to do better at locking down Maryland.
-(Also, a lot of these guys are guys we offered because we missed out on bigger fish. Goins certainly is, given that he didn’t get an offer until two weeks ago even though we already offered some of his 2013 teammates. Several of the linebackers, after we missed on Trey Edmunds despite his dad having played at UMD. Some of the really early guys got offers independent of others but they weren’t/aren’t supposed to be the center of the class, like they are now.)
-I’m exactly not sure firing Edsall is exactly the right move, even if I wouldn’t be upset about it happening. Based on everything I’ve seen, I just believe Edsall isn’t the right guy for the job. My opinion could change if he starts winning or recruiting at a higher level. I think financially it could make sense to do it and I’ve made passing references about guys like Ambrose and Fickell, but when it comes down to business I understand how unlikely such a move is. I’m not 100% on the Fire Edsall train, partially because its so unlikely, as much as I understand how others are and don’t really blame them for it.
-The sports not being geographic was in reference to you talking about how fan support → good teams, and not the other way around. Fan support helps, but my thought on it is that successful teams create fan support. The schools I mentioned are basketball schools in football areas (UNC, KY, IN) and a football school in a basketball area (BC) – that is, how did they get to be “basketball/football schools” if not winning? My point with that is that it’s not like all football schools are in this place, all basketball schools in that place, etc. It’s just something I’m using to support my theory that good teams are what create great fan support. That’s more an academic discussion than we were perhaps looking for, as well as slightly tangential.
I disagree with the "many didn't give Edsall a chance"
As Ben pointed out on another thread, Edsall had a 93% approval rating on this site following the Miami win. This was after the names on the jersey, and (obviously) before he had landed a big name recruit. The team won an exciting game over a big name opponent, and people were on his side.
Guess why he doesn’t have a 93% approval rating now. It isn’t because of an irrational hatred, as much as you like to pretend thats what it is. It is because he lost. He lost a lot. He lost badly. He lost to mediocre teams. His team wasn’t ready to play in 90% of the games. His teams collapsed in the games it was ready to play.
That is why his approval rating dropped. Not because of some grudge against the man. It is because he did a shitty job. And made people not like him on a more personal level while doing it.
This isn't the only place I get my Terps info
I know you won’t and wouldn’t expect you to because it would take forever and I wouldn’t do it myself, but if you go back and read IMS, the WaPo, Baltimore Sun, and many other Terps sites, there were A LOT of people that came out and said they would not be buying season tickets only because Edsall was hired instead of Leach. Now I have no idea what percentage of the fan base it was, but to me it seemed like a decent amount of the comments were going in that direction.
Now I’m not saying that people have to be in love with Edsall. It was a rough year. I know people will say it was different, but 10 losses is 10 losses, and people thought the sky was falling 2 years ago when we only won 2 games. Then we won 9. I hate that that 9 was sandwiched by another two, but at this point it is what it is. Maybe I’m over thinking things, but I saw things this year that give me a positive outlook on the future. A lot of young players got valuable playing time, we are one year further into the system, Edsall and Co. were able to recruit the players they feel will help them win, etc.
Now at this point, there really is no way to tell who is right and who is wrong. And unfortunately I don’t think that next year will be the year to tell either as my prediction of 7 wins likely won’t win everyone over either. But right now, all we can do is wait and see.
by FeartheTurtle2002 on Nov 29, 2011 1:48 AM EST up reply actions
I can't speak to IMS posters
But I find the majority of people posting comments to the Washington Post to be overly ridiculous and combative. That’s why I migrated to TT.
When I read Ben's comment, I had the impression he was referring to this blog.
If that’s the case, I agree with him. The comments we make on this site have ZERO impact on recruits.
I don’t think Ben, or anyone, would disagree that a loud, filled-to-the-brim stadium has a substantial impact on kids thinking about playing for UMD.
In fact
That’s exactly what he was saying. That a packed Byrd doesn’t have any sort of effect on recruiting. He wasn’t talking about the blog.
by FeartheTurtle2002 on Nov 29, 2011 1:41 AM EST up reply actions
And again
My disclaimer that not everything was directed at you Ben. Some of it, like the discussion on how much fans impact this team, but not the fan part. I’m pretty sure you’ve proven your true colors whether we agree or disagree.
by FeartheTurtle2002 on Nov 28, 2011 9:36 PM EST up reply actions
I have to Disagree here
I think perhaps a high school player that we are recruiting hearing at games “Fire Edsall” or reading your hopes that he could get fired so early on might think twice about committing to a head coach that is on the verge of being fired? There is a big difference between positive energy making a difference on where a player commits and fans chanting fire our head coach and it’s possible effect on that same recruit.
Undoubtedly those who are calling for Edsall’s head would like to argue otherwise, but one can rationalize the most irrational of behavior. If you would really like to help Randy Edsall then it’s time to support our football team and stop all the negativity. To take a page from your own book stop being a TROLL.
by clevesanterp on Nov 28, 2011 10:03 PM EST up reply actions
wait
weren’t you the one calling for Gary’s head with Firegary??? im pretty sure u were really negative then, if i am wrong, i do apologize in advance
I'm pretty sure...
calling for someone to be fired after one year, is different from calling for someone to be fired after over 20 years (and 7 bad years) on the job.
* Maryland basketball has been a sleeping Giant. The Giant is waking up.
** It goes without saying, that if Maryland basketball was a sleeping Giant, whoever was at the helm before, put it to sleep.
by CharlesDriesell on Nov 28, 2011 10:29 PM EST up reply actions
Hold on a minute
2 things.
1. I get your point that it is somewhat unfair to judge Edsall so harshly after 1 year, but Gary never had a season like Edsall just did. You can’t honestly argue that Gary was more deserving of being fired than Edsall is now. Gary, at worst, stagnated the program. Edsall has taken it into a nosedive.
2. Your head would have spun in circles if someone said to you that people calling for Gary to be fired was hurting his recruiting efforts. So please don’t try to defend clevesanterp on that front (if cleves was indeed calling for Gary’s head, I don’t really remember, so if you didn’t cleves sorry in advance).
haha chuck, i know your dissatisfaction with Gary, it is well documented
i was just pointing out the fact that if our fanbase calling for Edsall’s head has a negative impact on the recruits, and cleve was calling out people for it, he would be a hypocrite since he was calling for Gary’s head, while complaining about his recruits, that’s all
"So keep running around telling everyone how much you hate Edsall and watch recruits go to UVA, then watch our team be non-competitive for years."
Or
We can let next year’s recruits simply compare how well UVA and Mike London did in comparison to UMD and Edsall THIS year and watch them choose UVA, which will STILL make us non-competitive for years.
Most recruits couldn’t give a flying fig about what perhaps 10,000 die-hard fans are saying on the internet. They look for RESULTS, and what will get them on national TV.
I’ll give Edsall another year, no problem. He deserves that right to try to fix the situation he’s in (and mostly his own fault). I’m even setting the bar low and asking for 5 wins next year a sign that improvement is on the horizon under him. Any less than that, and he should be shown the door. The long term impacts to the program simply outweigh the costs to buy him out…
You can't set the bar low
and predict 2.5x as many wins as this year. That’s setting the bar pretty high considering we have to play AT powerhouses like Temple.
I will keep bashing Edsall, thank you.
People who double down on their investments routinely lose their asses. Feel free to buy more tickets. Those that see what’s coming get out of the way of history and survive.
I don’t know how many times I have to say this or in what other way. EDSALL NEVER SHOULD HAVE BEEN HIRED! HE IS IN WAY OVER HIS HEAD AND ALL THE “SUPPORT” IN THE WORLD WON’T CHANGE THAT.
To blame the fans for the failure of the AD and coach is fruitless and misguided. To attack the fans for exposing what should be obvious to everyone is childish. There is no Santa Claus and Randy Edsall will not be getting coaching skills this Christmas, or any other.
Repeat after me…..WE HIRED THE WRONG GUY, WE HIRED THE WRONG GUY, …..
Fear the Turgle!
The people that panicked when the market crashed in 2008
and sold off all their stocks when the market bottomed out, just to cut their losses, sure are looking like fools right now with the DOW sitting at 11K. Those with patience to stick with a long term view are a lot wealthier today.
Comparing to the Edsall situation, I’m gonna hold off on any rash judgements, never sell during a panic.
by 1 proud terp on Nov 28, 2011 9:46 PM EST up reply actions
thats not the best analogy
not selling during a panic can be very risky as well, although it obviously depends on your portfolio and financial standings. Question is, do we not touch the coaching staff at all?
FWIW
I’ve had the bulk of my retirement money in high quality corporate bonds yielding 6-7.5% since 2006. I sleep well at night while everyone rode the market from 14k+ down to 8k and back to 12 and then 10 and now back to 11.
I saw this crap coming since 2003 and timed it pretty well. Sold my house and rental property in 2004 and 2005.
Wait till you see what happens next with the whole world awash in debt and the US continuing to run trillion dollar deficits. And I’m supposed to care about 1.2 trillion saved over 10 years?
When the uncertainty is gone I will reinvest in stocks. Till then 7% preserves my capital and beats inflation.
Fear the Turgle!
At least
You admit you are one of those who were never going to give Edsall a chance in the first place. Not that you care, and while I still vehemently disagree with you, I have much more respect for you than some others.
by FeartheTurtle2002 on Nov 28, 2011 9:49 PM EST up reply actions
Please understand.
The team’s performance has nothing to do with my opinion of Edsall. Turgeon could have a similar result and I would support him to the end because I believe he was the right hire inside and out.
I can’t say that about Edsall. Everything about the guy does not sit well with me and failure with him is a foregone conclusion in my mind.
Fear the Turgle!
Agreed
My problem with Coach Edsall has less to do with his on-field management then his personality, on and off the field. Coach Edsall seems to believe in the whole “my way or the highway” thing, which doesn’t work in major college football because the highway includes over 100 other FBS football programs, as well as numerous FCS programs for players to choose. Coach Edsall has blamed everyone for the team’s failures this year, from the previous coaches to his current players to the fans, all without taking any blame himself. If you read the comments from the players you can see that he has very obviously alienated quite a few of them with his lack of respect for them.
These problems are not problems that can be solved easily. Bringing in new assistant coaches, or installing new schemes, or recruiting more “Edsall-type” players (if they exist in this day and age) will not change the fact that the head coach’s problems are jeopardizing all the progress the Terps have made with their football program.
I realize that we are likely stuck with Coach Edsall for the next few years at least, no matter how much of a disaster this past year has been with him (and it has been a disaster, no matter how many excuses he can come up with). While I hope he can change and that he truly can be the right coach for Maryland, I have zero faith that Coach Edsall will change. And I have zero faith that Coach Edsall will bring success to the Terps. I hope I am wrong.
I'm still supporting Edsall.
I had to take a step back from the fray for a few days after that game, it was very painful to experience the collapse and picture Debs Yow enjoying every excruciating second of it. That said, I’m sticking to my guns that Edsall should get a few years to properly implement his system, with players that chose to play for him. Despite what the Duke alum J. Feinstein says, nothing good would come out of firing Edsall right now. Financially notwithstanding, the damage caused by pulling the plug on our HC after ONE lousy season would probably make the program radioactive to any and all decent prospective coaches, and we could very well end up with a coach that is worse than Edsall(I know many of you can’t fathom that). I’ve said it before, I’d be very weary of a coach willing to come in under that situation, would almost be a desperation move to come here after we’ve thrown Randy overboard. And to those of you who don’t think things can get worse, try to grasp the scenario of TWO back-to-back epic fails as HC. Shit, even Kevin Plank might be flying a Georgia Tech flag if that happens, haha.
A quick props to FearTheTurtle2002 and a few others for keeping up the good fight. I’m about to read through these long-ass threads from the last couple days, but at first glance it seems as though you guys had your work cut out for you, with the deck stacked against our POV on the RE situation. The great thing about sports is one side will be right, and one will be wrong…and we can talk shit about things all the way there. LOL
Put the names back on our jerseys!!
Who the hell does Edsall think he is anyway taking them off!! I’ll never support this guy ‘til he put the names back on… and yes this may sound stupid to you, but it’s a matter of principle to me!!
LOL
That will solve our problems. There is no “I” in team. Get over it. The names will stay off.
* Maryland basketball has been a sleeping Giant. The Giant is waking up.
** It goes without saying, that if Maryland basketball was a sleeping Giant, whoever was at the helm before, put it to sleep.
by CharlesDriesell on Nov 28, 2011 9:32 PM EST up reply actions
I actually agree.
I want the names back, and it could be an olive branch extended to the angry natives.
by 1 proud terp on Nov 28, 2011 9:48 PM EST up reply actions
Come one man
While I agree with you that I think the names should be back on the jerseys, and 1 proud terp said it right when he said it would at least be an olive branch to the fans and players, to say you won’t support a guy unless he puts the names back on the jerseys is a little much.
I know you don’t think this will happen, but let’s play the hypothetical game for a minute. Let’s say in two years we are competing in the ACC title game, but you can’t see the name on the back of Noah Spence’s jersey, are you really going to be hating still?
by FeartheTurtle2002 on Nov 28, 2011 9:51 PM EST up reply actions
yea... cause it's a matter of principle to me
I was on campus when Esiason and Bias roamed the hallways, and we’ve ALWAYS had our frickin’ names on our jerseys!! I don’t wanna be some military team or mid-major or friggin Big Ten team…. we are Maryland and we have the damn names on our jerseys!!
Then more power to you
And even though I don’t think that’s the exact right way to go about things, I agree with your ultimate message in getting the names back on the jerseys. I personally don’t think it’s THAT big of a deal, but I do actually think it would go a pretty long way to toning down some of the venom surrounding Edsall right now.
by FeartheTurtle2002 on Nov 28, 2011 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
What it really is...
is a culture war. It’s the “me” generation bumping up against the “team” generation.
* Maryland basketball has been a sleeping Giant. The Giant is waking up.
** It goes without saying, that if Maryland basketball was a sleeping Giant, whoever was at the helm before, put it to sleep.
by CharlesDriesell on Nov 28, 2011 10:33 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know if it's that simple
I myself am 23 years old. To me, and I’m not saying that other people didn’t play sports, but I was always taught to have a team first mentality. If you’re good enough, people will know who you are. Either way, you play for the glory of your team, not your name.
by FeartheTurtle2002 on Nov 28, 2011 10:36 PM EST up reply actions
Whatever the case...
if a person lets something as simple as names on the backs of jerseys effect their “fandom” then they are either very immature, or they do not have a clue of what is important.
We have always had better looking uniforms than Penn State, but I swear to God, they have not minded their bland uniforms, or their winning one bit.
* Maryland basketball has been a sleeping Giant. The Giant is waking up.
** It goes without saying, that if Maryland basketball was a sleeping Giant, whoever was at the helm before, put it to sleep.
by CharlesDriesell on Nov 28, 2011 10:39 PM EST up reply actions
Actually, we have NOT...
always had our names on our jerseys. 1962 was the first year we (or anyone) did it in college basketball.
If you were on campus during the Esiason and Bias era, you sure are acting pretty immature about this. I mean, come on! You won’t support the team unless names are put on the jerseys? Jesus help us if this is an example of a faithful fan.
* Maryland basketball has been a sleeping Giant. The Giant is waking up.
** It goes without saying, that if Maryland basketball was a sleeping Giant, whoever was at the helm before, put it to sleep.
by CharlesDriesell on Nov 28, 2011 10:32 PM EST up reply actions
Chuck
I doubt you would know who I am because I don’t post all that much (trying to more though!) but if you read my post from a day or so ago on one of the other threads you would know that I am a HARDCORE Terps BASKETBALL fan… (like tons of us are!!)…. and my point on that post is that I’m a casual football fan. If football is doing good, great!! If it sucks, I tune it out. But see, it’s the casual fan like me who NEEDS the names on the jerseys!! Other than DOB 5, I couldn’t tell you one player by their number. Where last year I was really diggin’ gettin’ to know some of the guys I wasn’t that familiar with. But see, it’s all of the casual fans that fill up the stands and can take the program over the top! I personally was so peeved and yep, I’m a mature person, but when it comes to somebody I think is giving me (or us) a raw deal, I’m gonna stand against it… so if you think it’s immature, that’s OK, but that’s where I stand.
While I could care less one way or the other.
I’m pretty sure the “teams” that win have names on their jerseys, so I don’t see how taking them off helps us except to make us look like holier than thou hypocrites. “Woo Hoo! We don’t have names on our jerseys because we believe in the team more than you.” See what I mean?
Response: “Yes, and we (plural) beat your team.”
I just don’t see the value. We had far bigger fish to fry this year. Taking the names off was pretty far down the list of things that needed to be done.
Fear the Turgle!
thank you NY Terp .... exactly, it isn't really a big deal
but it’s an example of how Edsall just HAD to come piss us all off… there are very few people who were happy about the names being off of the jerseys… and ooooohhhh taking them off did sooooo good!!
Wrong Guy
James Franklin was the right guy. No question about it. He was already in the program and he was clearly in line for the HC job once it opened up. KA should have honored that, first of all. Second, Edsall’s resume was not a clear step up from the Fridge, so why fire the Fridge just to get Edall. If he had taken a chance on Leach, then ok. But if you’re going to fire your current coach just to hire an up and coming coach, then you may as well just keep the up and coming coach that you have already got in your program. Hind sight is 20/20, as they say, but it seems clear to me to KA botched this one.
Not saying he should fire Edall. That might just make things worse at this stage. I’m just saying KA screwed this one up and UMD football is going to suffer for several years due to the decision.
I'll keep hating
If Edsall gave me anything to work with. ANYTHING! I would support the man. He has done so many things in just one season that it is impossible for me to do that. I honestly don’t care so much about the record this year as the direction the program is heading. I don’t think anyone can confidently say that the direction is going North. IMO recruiting will suffer as the word gets out that Edsall treats his players poorly and UMD football will be lucky to get to .500 during his tenure.
I'll always be a Terp fan
No matter who the coach is, or which sport. I always cheer for Maryland, for the last 42 years.
With hindsight, hell, we would have been better off with no head coach this year and waited for Urban Meyer!
Leadership
I don’t post much, and fully expect some negative feedback, but oh well. I’ve seen a lot posted about leadership on here the past few days, and many of the points are valid; however, if you want lessons in leadership let me offer 2 examples that are noteworthy. I am well aware that there are several examples to contradict my point, as there are always exceptions to any “rule.” 1. George Washington – there were some awful tough days in the beginning of the revolution and many, many people questioning washington’s prowess as a leader all the way through the first few years of the war, but we all know how that turned out eventually. 2. Abe Lincoln – pretty much the same as Washington, without turning this into an overly long post. Point being, it is way too early to write off edsall. Coach K had a rough couple of years to start his career at duke, also. Furthermore, the discipline edsall demands is a good thing. Without getting preachy, at the end of the day very few of our beloved terps will be pros. I’d rather have those that live in our community and work regular jobs realize there are consequences to their actions and have some semblance of reality than many d1 athletes who never have to deal with consequences and lead troubled lives after their pampered “glory days” are over. We all know there are numerous examples of wasted potential to bring up. Plus, thank God we probably don’t have a cheater (or worse yet a pedophile or the like) on our staff. Ultimately edsall will be judged on wins and losses, but let’s at least give him 3 years to see what he can do. That’s what Washington, Lincoln, and coach K got. Ok, hit me with a rebuttal, and remember – the coaches that ring out through history – the knights, lombardis, weavers (ok, I’m an o’s fan) all were disciplinarians.
Really liked this comment
Put some things in a more mellow context than I’ve been thinking, even if we were thinking along the same lines.
by FeartheTurtle2002 on Nov 28, 2011 11:47 PM EST up reply actions
It's funny that you bring up Knight
Because Feinstein used one of his quotes that really painted him in stark contrast to Edsall. Knight didn’t have “rules.” He just expected his players to know right from wrong. When they did something wrong, he punished them as he saw fit. It’s pretty basic.
In essence, he treated them like – you guessed it – young men. He trusted them, and that gained their respect. And he still held them accountable. There are different levels to this.
When you come in and set all these rules about the most basic stuff – no wearing hats, no names, you have to go to class – it’s a bit insulting. It’s not like the players didn’t know they were supposed to go to class. When you get unnecessary and micro-managed rules like that, it’s basically telling people that you don’t trust them to do the right thing without these set guidelines. Or, at least, that’s always the way I saw it when people gave me really basic rules. Besides, the problems in the football program had nothing to do with hats or, for that matter, attending class.
And yes, George Washington and Abe Lincoln struggled early. So did the final few monarchs before the French Revolution. And Mark Duffner. You present your point as a rule, to which there are exceptions. That, to me, is counter-intuitive. More likely, guys like Washington and Lincoln (good leaders starting poorly) are the exception, and not the rule.
Knight was a great leader
No one can take that away from him. But just because Knight was a great leader doesn’t mean that his way is the only way to lead.
And to me, as silly as the no hats rule may seem to some, to me it signifies that the little things matter, not that I’m being micro-managed. If I wore a hat all day at work tomorrow, people would look at me like was a fool because you just don’t do that, it’s about holding yourself as a professional. The no names is all about representing your team, not your name. And if everyone knows they have to go to class, then why is it a big deal that it is a rule? If you’re going to class, you don’t care that it’s a rule. Just like when you’re getting your drivers license and in the booklet you get it tells you that you have to stop at a stop sign. Even though it’s obvious and you would do it anyways, it’s not like you get upset that they put it in the book. Maybe it’s a bad analogy, but I think you see where I’m trying to get to.
by FeartheTurtle2002 on Nov 29, 2011 1:38 AM EST up reply actions
For sure
But he mentioned Knight and I thought that comparing Knight to Edsall isn’t exactly right.
And, as we do with so much, I’ll disagree on the hat rule. It has no impact on their ability to play football. Gossett isn’t an office, and they aren’t professionals. I don’t see the point to it past a rule for a rule’s sake – instilling “discipline” and whatnot – and that rarely works. As for attending class, if it’s something everyone knows they have to do anyway, it’s another rule for the sake of a rule. I’m not saying everyone should be up in arms about it, but it’s very easy to interpret that as Edsall not having faith in his guys to do the most basic things correctly. I’m aware that many other people may interpret it differently, and I’ve always been a bit of a free spirit in that vein. As for the names: I find it absurd that you can’t represent your team with your name on the back of the jersey.
Again, this could go on for days with no purpose. I have other stuff to do today. :)
Haha I love your last line
Unfortunately I do have things to do today, but love Maryland football too much to check out.
When you say that they are not professionals, I agree with you to a certain extent. But a huge part of Edsall’s job is to set them up for future success. Like someone said earlier, little to no one on this team is likely to make it to the NFL, or at least have more than a 3 year career there, the law of averages works against them. Mostly everyone on this team will be working professionals immediately upon graduation.
As for the class thing, again I fail to see any issue with it. Sure if on the doors of Gossett Field House or on the doors of their strength room or whatever it was plastered “You must go to class,” then yes that is over the top. But I don’t think that Edsall starts off every meeting by saying, make sure we are going to class. Like I said, I equate it to being in that booklet you get when you turn 16 that says you must stop at stop signs. I don’t think he slams it in these players’ faces everytime he sees them. He mentions it every other month or so just as a reminder so to speak maybe, and then only mentions it more than once every 2-3 months when there is an issue. I fail to see an issue with that.
As for the names, I personally don’t have a dog in the fight either way. But I can see where the fans that aren’t as into it as we do need the names. It’s like a commenter earlier said, the only name he knows according to their number is DOB, but he was really getting into learning the other players as well, which is difficult to do without the names. So for that reason I’ve come more to yall’s side and think that if for no other reason, the names need to be back on for the fans.
by FeartheTurtle2002 on Nov 29, 2011 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
To your analogy about wearing a hat to work.
These players go to college where there are 30,000 kids wearing whatever the hell they want to class. It would be like you being forced to wear a tie every day when your coworkers get to go business casual or even casual Friday (!!!). The players are supposed to be “student-athletes” meaning they should be held to the standards of students first. Students can skip classes at their leisure and wear bathing suits to class as long as they pass the course. Let the players be young adults, rather than telling them how to do it.
These athletes represent the school
And while I don’t think this necessarily applies to the no hats rule, I’m just saying in general. The random sophomore econ major has no bearing on the school or anyone but his ro her self. Whereas these athletes are more or less the face of our school, right or wrong it’s a fact. So they should be held to a higher standard than the rest of the student population.
And again, I’m not saying that pertains to the hat rule, just in general.
by FeartheTurtle2002 on Nov 29, 2011 10:19 AM EST up reply actions
I mean everyone represents this university to varying degrees
When you interview for a job and listing MD on your resume, you are representing both yourself and the university. If you act like an idiot, they won’t hire you and may shy away from other Maryland graduates. I agree that athletes are more likely to be the face of the school, but I don’t think its an issue unless they’re committing crimes, cheating, etc.
Rules for the sake of rules tend to make people unhappy. I’m all for improving academic performance, I just don’t see the correlation between Edsall’s rules and a better team.
Too far gone
In my mind and, I suspect, the minds of some people whose opinion carries considerably more weight than mine, this issue has been settled. It has become a question of timing and economics. I don’t see any way around it.
This season went so badly in so many different ways that is simply no longer reasonable for me to expect or believe that this program will perform to an acceptable level under the guidance of the current coaching staff in any allowable time frame.
ALL it will take
is 20,000 fans giving $50/mo to an escrow acct for 10 mos($500) = 10 mil worth of buy out for all. RE; KA and any other coach who needs to be bought out. Just a thought.
It costs $0.50 a day to feed some starving child in Africa yet it costs $1.67 a day to get Edsall to stop coaching Maryland football?? Sheesh.
Evidently RE
is not a vegetarian. And RE apparently has an excessive appetite.
So, this is a basketball school?
After multiple football posts generating between 100 and 300 comments apiece, one can draw only one conclusion: Basketball might be the sport in which UMD had experience the greatest success over the years, the fanbase is obviously VERY PASSIONATE about football as well.
The other point I’ll make is: When people voice such passionate opinions about something, it means they genuinely care about it. These are NOT fair-weather fans. IMO, a fair-weather fan is a fan who no longer cares about Maryland football. We wouldn’t be hearing from those people on this board. Such passionate discourse does not indicate anything of the sort.
Most obviously seem to disagree with you
But to me, my definition of a fair weather fan is someone who’s level of support for a given team is directly corrolated to the level of success that team is having.
by FeartheTurtle2002 on Nov 29, 2011 10:23 AM EST up reply actions
My bad - I meant most seem to agree with you
Complete mistake, sorry about that.
by FeartheTurtle2002 on Nov 29, 2011 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
So, I have a question for you...
Here’s my personal experience for this past football season.
Summer of 2010: I’m thinking to myself ‘Hey, maybe I should be season tickets to football.’ I’ve lived outside of Maryland since graduating in 2005 and I’m home to enjoy a full season. We had success the previous season, DOB exciting to watch, and we have a new coach coming in! However…
I can’t find any family or friends that would be willing to go to games with me on a consistent basis. And I didn’t want to buy 1 season ticket and go to games on my own…So… I don’t buy season tickets. Figure I’ll attend a game or 2.
Then, the 2011 football season actually happened.
I no longer have that strong desire to buy season tickets. Nor do I have any desire to get them for next season. Plus, I have an 11 month old son and a daughter due in 2 months. It’s much easier to just stay home and root from the couch. I just no longer had that strong desire to attend games.
Now, what I’ve ended up doing is trying to attend early season, OOC basketball games. So the athletic department is still getting some of my money, I’m supporting the Terps. But basketball games don’t present as large of a time/money sink as football does for me.
So, I guess the question is: does this make me a fairweather fan in your book? I’m OK with the answer being yes. I’m secure in my fanhood.
No
There are outside circumstances in your case. Your decision making is not solely based upon our win/loss record, rather it is based upon not being around enough Maryland fans and having a daughter. But if your decision to not purchase season tickets was because we are losing right now, but you would buy them if we were winning, then yes to me that would make you a fair weather fan.
Like I said, to me a fair weather fan is someone whose support for a team is directly corrolated to the amount of success they are having at a given time. If you can’t purchase season tickets because you have a daughter you have to care for, then I can’t blame you for that in the slightest. But if given the same circrumstances and we were winning and you would buy season tickets, then in my book you would be fair weather.
by FeartheTurtle2002 on Nov 29, 2011 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
I think a point I'm trying to make is
There’s a lot of shades of grey. Or maybe not everyone can live up to the expectations for what you are trying to describe as a fan, for various reasons.
I had the intention of going to more games. Real life got in the way of that. However, poor performance on the field and, what I view as questionable management practices, left me less excited to spend my time and money on the football program. My viewpoint shifted from ’I’m all in!’ to ‘I think I’d rather save my money and time for basketball season. Or going to the zoo on a Fall afternoon. Or having a nice dinner with my wife.’
And it’s not because I hate Edsall. I don’t know the guy. It’s just that, based on early returns, he hasn’t done much to prove to me that, despite the setbacks, he’s moving in the right direction. Game management, player development, game preparation… those are the things that give me pause about the coaching. The whole ‘militaristic’ approach to me is extraneous to my issues.
OK, that last paragraph veered off course of the topic of fair-weather fans.
We agree to disagree
However I will not say you are not a good fan or whatever of football, your statement, and I think you will agree, makes me believe you are not a passionate supporter of this football team. You are not a true fan of this football team. I know that sounds like I’m attacking you, but I promise you I’m not. I understand the roles that fans like you and fair weather fans will play in our ultimate success as a program. That’s what frustrates me about it though is that I know we need you, and your support and money does count just as much if not more so than my own.
I guess it’s unfair, but I just hold people that are active on this site to a higher standard than the average fan. If you look around at other Terps fans sites, this is BY FAR the best one unless there is one I haven’t found yet. 90% of the people that post on here do so because they want to come to a place to discuss Terps athletics. Hell, if you go look at IMS, the supposed premier Terps site because it’s a pay site, it’s a joke. Don’t get me wrong, I think their writers and editors do an incredbile job, that’s why I pay for the info. But their fan board over there is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever seen. They are just as likely to talk about why it is currently raining outside as they are to talk about anything Maryland related on their fan board, I can’t stand it.
So that might have been a little off topic, but because this seems to be the best Maryland fan site on the world wide web, I do hold people here to a higher standard.
by FeartheTurtle2002 on Nov 29, 2011 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
I think we've found a bit of a concensus here, maybe
By your definition and expectations of what a ‘true fan’ are, I don’t meet those criteria. And I’m fine with that. Out of my group of friends that I went to UMD with, I’m the only one that regularly follows the team outside of a box score. I’m the only one that attends any sort of events at the University. Sadly, we do not have a strong, continuous culture of winning here in football. I appreciate fans such as yourself that are so dedicated and trying to hold others to a higher standard. It’s part of what we need in the long run. We also need winning. I also think that your strict standards in defining a fan alienates a lot of people, and that may be why you garner push-back in your comments. Nothing wrong with that though, keeps me entertained at work.
You and bshock have brought up good points
And have changed my POV somewhat as I said above. I won’t repeat it, but just wanted to give you the thumbs up so to speak. There are different levels of being a fan, but just because you may not be a die hard like myself doesn’t mean that you aren’t a fan as well.
And I’m not calling you fair weather when I say this, but I don’t necessarily have an issue with fair weather fans. I was once a fair weather fan, that’s how I got into this program. When I started getting into sports in middle school, that was about the time that Fridge took us to the Orange Bowl, etc. Obviously I jumped on the bandwagon and never got off. And with time, I have come to have more and more passion for this team to the point of where I’m at today. But just about everyone starts off as a fair weather fan unless you are either born into that culture (like at Alabama, etc) or for whatever random reason you started liking a team out of nowhere which is rare.
by FeartheTurtle2002 on Nov 29, 2011 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
maybe you have a bad definition...
it’s a disrespectful term and I think you know that… as much as calling for edsall to be fired creates a negative atmosphere, so does alienating your fellow fans. Part of the great thing about being a sports fan is the community, and your borderline obsession with calling out everyone who will route for the terps through thick and thin even if it’s not at every game they can financially afford, is counterproductive to that atmosphere.
I could say my definition of a true fan is someone who focuses on being the best fan they can be and doesn’t waste time calling other people that love their team fair weather fans.
If I call you a bad fan over and over again, does it make it true?
I'm not trying to disrespect anyone
And if that is the way it is being taken then I need to either re-evaluate what I’m saying or the way I’m saying it.
I’m not intending to put myself or anyone else above anyone else, that I can promise you. We are and always will be judged as an entire fan base. And whether you care about how we are perceived or not, we don’t have a great reputation as a fan base, aside from the rioting. Look at the Military Bowl last year? You think we didn’t deserve to go to the Champs Sports Bowl? Of course we did, but due to the way our entire fan base didn’t support this team, we were overlooked by basically everyone. I don’t want to go through that anymore. I don’t want to go to a Military Bowl the next time we are the 3rd best team in the ACC. And I know you don’t either. But there’s only a few ways we don’t go to a Military Bowl without fan support. First, win the ACC. Second, lose the ACC title game.Third, there is no third, that’s it without fan support.
We have a bad reputation as a fan base, especially when it comes to football. All I’m trying to do is change that. I’m sure it will be a fruitless effort, but I’ll be damned if I sit by the wayside and be okay with it. I know we had only won two games the year before, but we were still a good team last year with the wins to back it up. We had a night game against FSU that was pretty much to decide who would represent our division in the ACC title game, and we still BARELY sold that out, and I’m not even sure that we did. So I don’t buy into that if we start winning that’s when fans will come. I don’t know, I’m just frustrated.
Again, didn’t mean to offend anyone, just wanted to bring to everyone’s attention what the consequences will be if we don’t support this team.
by FeartheTurtle2002 on Nov 29, 2011 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
Of course...
This team needs our support, just not sure calling that calling people fair weather fans does anything to help put people in seats. As much as people on this site complain, I’m sure most everyone goes to the games when they can. And if they don’t, they don’t that’s not something you or I can really change.
The best way to get people to go to games is to create excitement. As much as we have a commitment as fans to support our team, on the most basic level it is the programs job to get fans excited. Randy Edsall has not done a good enough job selling himself and this team to the fans and that’s part of the problem with attendance this year.
I’m not saying fire edsall now, but he does deserve some of the responsibility for the lack of support. I personally believe he can make things right, but he needs to start making concessions to the fans (such as names on jerseys) and handling himself like a professional in the media (not blaming everyone but himself).
I went off on a tangent
And some people have helped me realize the error in what I said. There are different levels of being a fan, and just because you aren’t at the pinacle of it doesn’t make someone not a fan. I explained it a little more above in 2 other comments, but that’s the gist of it.
And like I said above, while most of the responsibility lies with Edsall & Co. to get us excited, that doesn’t excuse us from our responsibility to support this team even if we don’t support Edsall, at least that’s the way I see it.
by FeartheTurtle2002 on Nov 29, 2011 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
Too many factors are involved to make that determination.
If a season-ticket holder is laid off today, and decides he needs to cut the tix for next season, it doesn’t make him a fair-weather fan. But based on your definition, he would be included in that group because he level of support diminished when the team was playing poorly.
Please read my definition
One more time. A fair weather fan is someone who’s level of support is DIRECTLY CORROLATED with the success of the team at a given time. Meaning if that person is only not supporting because we aren’t very good right now, then they are a fair weather fan. Obviously in the scenario you point out, the reasoning behind not buying season tickets has NOTHING to do with the performance of the team. I’m really not trying to be rude, but please read the definition of what I’m saying first.
by FeartheTurtle2002 on Nov 29, 2011 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
This, Curterp.
I remember last August, a couple weeks before the Miami game, being upset that there wasn’t enough football talk around here. It was all basketball recruiting, McGary breaking backboards, etc. The few Fanposts about football maybe had 10 or 11 comments max. Maybe the greatest unexpected consequence of Randy Edsall is that he’s completely fired up the fanbase, and passion’s are running wild now. My hope is that some of the anti-Edsall folks will fill up Byrd next year just to watch the circus, like rubberneckers at an accident scene. Whatever it takes to put fannies in the stands, I’ll take it!!! Our athletic department is flat broke, bring on the schadenfreude, and help pay for a new artificial turf and indoor practice facility along the way!!!
by 1 proud terp on Nov 29, 2011 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
Proud One
I’ll go on record to say I’m predicting next season won’t be a train wreck. I see a new DC, new ST coach, a more experienced young LB crew, and a revamped offense more suited to DOB, who will stay here and rise up again to lead the guys to a 6-6 season minimum.
But I do hope most of us that can go get to as many games as possible. The squad will need us to rally around them. I leave it up to RE to do some damage control, offer up the more pronounced mea culpa I’ve been waiting for, and say how he’s going to lead our guys next year. I will be a little less optimistic if I do not see a majority of these specific items. That’s just my take and what I’m looking for….
"A new era has dawned in Maryland Athletics..."
by bball purist on Nov 29, 2011 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with you bball, I think most people here will return
once they’re done raging against the machine, and I fully expect them to rally around the family next year, with a pocket full of shells(turtle).
by 1 proud terp on Nov 29, 2011 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
that's the most appropriate song
That riff is what’s going on now…when Rage messed up something involving taking down online song material, Morello put up a bunch of free songs for download that were instrumentals of many of their songs. It was terrific, more so without de la Rocha’s histrionics.
"A new era has dawned in Maryland Athletics..."
by bball purist on Nov 29, 2011 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
Of course, your comment begs the question
How does RE fit in to that song?
3. Rallies around his family (the players and us);
2. Ramp up his five sided Fistagon approach;
3. Gets his players to drop hits like De La O, or gets the F off the HC commode….
????
"A new era has dawned in Maryland Athletics..."
by bball purist on Nov 29, 2011 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
Rage. Against. The. Machine.
This website has taken its coolness to another level. I don’t even give a damn what you guys are arguing about now: hell, I didn’t even read all of the last few posts. I saw a Rage reference and am just blown away. Seems like D.J. and Mackall were a few of the “Fuck you I won’t do what you tell me” supporters; or maybe they’re more of the Wiz Khalifa crew, just being “Young, Wild and Free”…I mean so what our boys get drunk…so what they smoke weed…they’re just having fun…they don’t care who sees.
by CarolinaTerp on Nov 29, 2011 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
whenever we digress into music
it’s all good. RATM is a masterpiece. There’s been no fusion of rap/metal close to it since then. They say the 1st one is hard to outdo – true again. Wake Up is an amazing modified riff of kashmir – and ZdlR doesn’t go crazy over emphasizing…great stuff
"A new era has dawned in Maryland Athletics..."
by bball purist on Nov 29, 2011 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
Absolutely, bball.
Funny thing is that I wanted to be a deejay out of high school because I loved music so much; I’d always find myself quoting a song in certain life situations. Yeah, the money wouldn’t have been great, but I’d a had a lot of fun. Maybe we should start a thread in which you can only use songs to talk about this past Maryland Football season. “It’s right outside your door now testify” would be a good start; let’s put some people on trial so we can clear the air.
by CarolinaTerp on Nov 29, 2011 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
deejaying would be a fun "hobby" too
a friend of mine deejays internet radio “All Over the Place” on Live365.com. He was a college dj, and like you, loves music (as you know I do from my crazy music posts at times – I try to limit it not to make us posters bonkers). You should check it out to see if you want to start up something
"A new era has dawned in Maryland Athletics..."
by bball purist on Nov 29, 2011 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
He's coming back around again,
this is for the people who don’t like fun.
by 1 proud terp on Nov 29, 2011 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
good one
Some speak the sounds
But speak in silent voices
Like radio is silent
Though it fills the air with noises
Its transmissions bring submission
As ya mold to the unreal
"A new era has dawned in Maryland Athletics..."
by bball purist on Nov 29, 2011 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
actually, add Fistful of Steel to the Band's songlist next season
We have “The Theme to Shaft” + Rage’s “Fistful of Steel” – “Give ya a Glimpse of the reality I’m Grippin’, Steppin’ into the Jam and I’m Slammin’ like Shaquille!”
"A new era has dawned in Maryland Athletics..."
by bball purist on Nov 29, 2011 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
with a Fistful of Steel!!! [Crowd goes wild!!!]
"A new era has dawned in Maryland Athletics..."
by bball purist on Nov 29, 2011 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
Contact I highjacked the frequencies
Blockin the beltway
Move on DC
Way past the days of bombin MCs
Sound off Mumia guan be free
Who gottem yo check the federal file
All you pen devils know the trial was vile
Army of pigs try to silence my style
Off em all out that box its my radio dial
LIGHTS OUT, TERRAPIN FOOTBALL!!!!!!(too soon?!?)
by 1 proud terp on Nov 29, 2011 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
It has to start somewhere
It has to start sometime
What better place than here
What better time than now
Ugggh, Yeah,,,,CAN’T STOP US NOW!!!
by 1 proud terp on Nov 29, 2011 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
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